Sorcerers should use Con not Cha

[variant]

Ultimately I think willpower bleeds into both Wisdom and Charisma. It means self-control and self-discipline.

 

[The Shadow]

I don't think "willpower" is all that well-defined a concept, actually. It can mean a passive ability to endure difficulties; and it can also mean an active boldness to shape one's situation.

I see the former as included in D&D Wisdom, and the latter as included in D&D Charisma. And the latter is surely more appropriate to the 5e sorcerer.

As for how the mental stats fit together, I've always mapped the mental stats onto the physical ones like so: Cha is mental Str, Int is mental Dex, and Wis is mental Con.

EDIT:

A further thought. Sorcerers could use Cha to shape spells, and if there's ever a check to prevent themselves from losing control, they could use Wis for that. I like the idea of sorcerers having to hold a spell together and keep it from going wild - wizards use elaborate symbolic structures to do that, but sorcerers have to do it all in their head.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I think it would be cool to have a CON-based sorcerer option, just as one can build fighters that focus on either STR or DEX.

The dragon bloodline sorcerer in the playtest docs is so fighter-like it would seem an ideal choice to make CON-based. Other bloodlines -- fey, frex -- would be better CHA-based.

 

[variant]

I think it would be cool to have a CON-based sorcerer option, just as one can build fighters that focus on either STR or DEX.

The dragon bloodline sorcerer in the playtest docs is so fighter-like it would seem an ideal choice to make CON-based. Other bloodlines -- fey, frex -- would be better CHA-based.

I don't think it would be cool at all as a physical stat has absolutely nothing to do with the sorcerer.

 

[Underman]

Mapping the mental stats to the physical stats (or willpower to a single ability score) seems a bit too much like the 9 alignments and the Great Wheel. Can't we let the ability scores just be without all the 'gamist' cross referencing?

 

[variant]

Mapping the mental stats to the physical stats (or willpower to a single ability score) seems a bit too much like the 9 alignments and the Great Wheel. Can't we let the ability scores just be without all the 'gamist' cross referencing?

Consistency allows for a better balanced rule system.

 

[The Shadow]

The dragon bloodline sorcerer in the playtest docs is so fighter-like it would seem an ideal choice to make CON-based.

That's exactly what makes me nervous about making the dragon sorcerer Con-based. If their spell stat is also one that makes them better at fighting, there is nothing to stop them from overshadowing the fighter completely.

I'm starting to wonder if it's a mistake for the dragon bloodline to grant armor and weapon proficiency. What is there about being descended from a dragon that trains you with longswords and so on? It's different with cleric domains, because that represents the training you've had as a cleric through an actual organization. But what's stopping a kid with dragon blood from deciding to read books instead of practicing with a sword all day?

If the argument is that a kid with dragon blood definitely would not want to read books and would want to practice with swords due to his inherent nature, that seems to make biology a little too close to destiny for my taste. Besides, there certainly are scholarly dragons.

I grant that you can have fighters with the Sage background, and thus book learning and sword training are not mutually exclusive. But still. Weapon proficiency has to imply either extensive training (which in the fiction, a given dragon sorcerer might not have access to or interest in) or else some sort of instinctive ease with weapons, which I don't quite see has to do with dragon blood.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I don't think it would be cool at all as a physical stat has absolutely nothing to do with the sorcerer.

Your vision of one, sure.

I think the OP -- and I -- are suggesting that there is room within the sorcerer concept for a sorcerer that is derived from a mental power source (CHA suggested, but I could see WIS, too) as well as an alternate concept that draws from a physical power source (CON suggested, but I could see STR as well).

I like the vision that could make the 5E sorcerer more than "like a wizard, but more emo".

 

[Underman]

Consistency allows for a better balanced rule system.

Don't get me started on that

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I'm starting to wonder if it's a mistake for the dragon bloodline to grant armor and weapon proficiency. What is there about being descended from a dragon that trains you with longswords and so on? It's different with cleric domains, because that represents the training you've had as a cleric through an actual organization. But what's stopping a kid with dragon blood from deciding to read books instead of practicing with a sword all day?

Agreed. I do think the dragon sorcerer as written risks overshadowing the fighter; I think the correction is to lift the weapon and armor proficiencies. His fighting ability comes from the internal toughness and fury that stems from his dragon bloodline, not skill with arms. Limit him to light armor and simple weapons; his defenses become ablative -- CON-based -- and his attacks are sorcerous powers channeled through some simple weapon.