D&D 5E Maybe D&D Should Branch?

[Herschel]

My rapidly-approaching-40 eyebrow is raised. You can't see it, but it's there. There's head-shaking, too, as well as a deep sigh.

-O

Couldn't XP you but I just dinged 44 and I run one group for 20-somethings but our LFR group and the other groups I play with are generally over 30, with with some in the fifties.

 

[Herschel]

My rapidly-approaching-40 eyebrow is raised. You can't see it, but it's there. There's head-shaking, too, as well as a deep sigh.

-O

Couldn't XP you but I just dinged 44 and I run one group for 20-somethings but our LFR group and the other groups I play with are generally over 30, with some in the fifties.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Dragon age sold 4 million games at 60$ a pop, most of them also bought the add on for another 50$ thats 110$ X4 million.

You think WoTC could have used another 440 million dollars? Maybe?

And whose to say thats the limit? It was put out by the Baldurs gate company, so clearly they know how to do D&D games and theres no reason to think those guys couldnt have done as good a job or better with a D&D franchise.

And DA had no existing name recognition. You slap a recognized name like D&D on that and you'll get another half million sales, easy. Probably more.

Good video games sell and make a huge profit, AND would have given a bounce to the initial sales of 4e.

Do you even know the name of "the Baldurs gate company"?

The company is called 'Bioware'. And THAT was all the "existing name recognition" players needed to know that Dragon Age: Origins (or, as Bioware referred to it "the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate") was probably going to be good.

And do you know WHY Bioware was not making another Dungeons & Dragons video game? It's because THEY ALREADY DID IT. TWICE. Once with the Baldur's Gate series, and once with Neverwinter Nights. And Bioware specifically said they were no longer interested in working with another company's IP and wanted to create their own... which is why Mass Effect and Dragon Age were created, rather than going back for another NN sequel or Baldur's Gate 3.

So no... WotC WAS NOT going to spend the money to buy the video game rights to D&D off of Atari... WAS NOT going to get Bioware to make a new video game for them... and WAS NOT going to earn 440 million dollars through any sale of "D&D 4E" video game. And to believe otherwise is to not have any idea of how the video game industry actually works.

Once again... yes, I trust the business sense of Wizards of the Coast much more than some random dude who apparently didn't even know the name of the largest RPG video game company in the country (or 'countries' as it were, as Bioware is mainly based in Edmonton).

 

[Yora]

Well, there's that strange game called Neverwinter that has been in development for the last two or three years and apparently is a 4th Edition game.
Some kind of free to play mmo that has been pushed back to somewhere next year.

 

[Steely_Dan]

Why do we seem so unwilling to accept the idea that the reason WotC is creating a new edition because it is keeping some people employed, they'll sell a bunch of product, and they'll make some money? Then, when the products they produce past that are not making the kind of money needed to keep people employed, they'll create another new edition in order to keep people employed, they'll sell a bunch of product, and they'll make some more money?

It seems like heaps of people keep trying to put some altruistic spin on all of this, where WotC is attempting to "save tabletop gaming" or "enlarge the playerbase" or "create a game that will unite all the fans" or other such platitudes.

Believe it or not... perhaps WotC is really much more mercenary in these endeavors than it seems people are willing to think? And that the company as a whole don't really care that they annoyed a bunch of players (who went on to switch to Pathfinder), because they still sold quite enough 4E books and DDI subscriptions to do what they needed... which was keep people employed, sell some product, and make some money? And if/when DDN gets released and annoy a bunch of players (who decide to stick with 4E), they still won't care because they still will see enough sales to keep people employed, sell some product, and make some money.

WotC is a business. And their business is making money. And for all we know... their desire to "do right by the game and by the fans" (as we all seem to want to put this identity onto them) only goes so far as long as it helps them keep people employed, sell a bunch of product, and make some money.

Brutal, but true, new editions give you mo money!

...at first.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Brutal, but true, new editions give you mo money!

...at first.

And when they don't... D&D 6E goes into development.

 

[Scylla]

OK, there's a huge difference between putting out both Monopoly and Risk and contemplating putting out significantly different, multiple flavors of D&D. The development work on both Monopoly and Risk was done decades ago. Occasionally they receive a facelift in the printed materials and tokens. That's not the case with D&D... unless one of the versions consists of virtually nothing but reprints.

Many games Hasbro puts out are also designed out of house, greatly reducing the amount of in-house work done compared to D&D. And once that development is done, little follow-up is necessary. They print whenever they feel they need to or sales warrant it.

The bottom line is it's a lot easier to put out multiple board games and not worry about spreading your resources too thin to be sustainable.

A valid enough point, but I still can't support that it's impossible. In addition to the fact that companies in every field under the Sun put out and support numerous products, I'd say...

a. Wizards created and supported Essentials and Gamma World and dealer programs and whatever else while still supporting 4e. If they consolidated and limited the number of board games and other side products and focused on D&D (something that's probably wise anyway, much as I like boardgames), surely they could support two editions with the staff they have.

b. Those resources, in comparison to pretty much every other RPG company save perhaps Paizo are huge, both in terms of capital and personnel. If numerous 3rd-party RPG companies, many of them essentially one-man operations, can support whole product lines, Wizards can back two editions.

Easy? No. But successful companies do this to expand customer reach. Apple developed & supports the iMac, iPad, and iPhone. Ben & Jerry's creates new flavors while selling a bevy of others. Ford sells numerous car models. You can pick apart the analogies, but bottom line: supporting two editions would probably be easier than trying to make one that pleases everyone.

 

[Mark CMG]

giving away their IP to the world for free with the OGL?

There's nothing wrong with going all in, especially with a great hand, but it doesn't have the same payoff if you then fold.

 

[underfoot007ct]

LOL you "trust the business sense of WoTC"? Have you been awake the last few years? Or ANY of the years of their company?

3.0 then immediately 3.5?
giving away their IP to the world for free with the OGL?

The entire marketing campaign of 4e that was so bad it turned off half the player base from even trying their new game?
Then essentials? An attempt to get 3e people back that totally fell flat on its face and doesnt seem to be well liked by a lot of 4e players either.

Where did you get your info about 4e? WOTC marketing was so poor that The sales of the 4e PHB were 'above expectations'. Soon aftet launch, the 3 core books went in to a 'reprinting' .

I suspect the only people who never purchased the 4e books early on, are the grognards who never purchased 3e nor 3.5. either.

 

[Ahnehnois]

I suspect the only people who never purchased the 4e books early on, are the grognards who never purchased 3e nor 3.5. either.

Actually I didn't buy the 4e books (or know anyone who did). I read them carefully first, which is what I did with all D&D books before my local bookstore closed. The 4e release was actually what got my to buying a whole load of great rpg books, just not 4e ones; the secondhand market was fantastic around that time and there were a number of interesting new games.

And I'm definitely not a grognard.

(I do suspect the early 4e sales figures were fairly strong; just short-lived).