D&D 5E Maybe D&D Should Branch?

[Mark CMG]

I am not entirely sure if I understand the question but if you mean the creative individuals behind the brand then I think it is not really a matter of "faces" but more the question if the creative philosophy behind the product remains true in the future. You can change the captain of a ship if it stays true to its course. A new captain might do things a bit differently and perhaps introduce additional twists but if the red line is being followed the ship will remain on track regardless of who is the helmsman.

Yup, I meant how many of the same designers and writers would likely still be there. Forget about the "captain" at WotC, we know the same captain won't be there. But as the question goes, if you replace every board and nail in a ship, is it still the same ship? Of course, that might be more of a rules question.

 

[pemerton]

Are you kidding? Of course they expect 5e to get them some Pathfinder players back.

No doubt. But that doesn't mean that they will.

One of the major reasons Pathfinder took off is 4e. People didn't abandon a game they'd played for twenty years on a whim.

Part of my point is that playing Pathfinder isn't abandoning a game that you played for twenty years. It's keeping going with the same game you played for the past decade or so. PF is not just a d20 game like True20 or FantasyCraft. It is D&D. Just like the poster says.

That may very well be what they expect, but I think pemerton is asking whether it will actually happen

Correct.

I'm not quite sure what you're saying here.

I'm just trying to work out how much bigger than Monte's project PF and D&D the RPG are. By my made-up figures, they're about 20 times the size. And I'm curious as to whether others think that those figures might be in the right ballpark, or am I completely out?

it is interesting that the D&D brand, which is meant to denote an RPG product and spin offs, has the most trouble getting what they actually call an RPG to perform under its own brand

Doesn't that mostly confirm what we already expected, namely, that more people read novels and play boardgames than play RPGs?

 

[Emerikol]

Part of my point is that playing Pathfinder isn't abandoning a game that you played for twenty years. It's keeping going with the same game you played for the past decade or so. PF is not just a d20 game like True20 or FantasyCraft. It is D&D. Just like the poster says.

I truly hate 4e and I wish it had never been written. I still haven't switched to Pathfinder. I don't run a Pathfinder game. I guess I own 3.5. I ran a 4e campaign but since that ended I took a hiatus from roleplaying. When I began developing my next campaign world, they announced 5e. Would I have played Pathfinder if not? Maybe. More likely DCC, Hackmaster, or CoC.

I still feel a loyalty to the D&D brand. I want it to do well. I want it to be related to the game I started so long ago. So I hope for 5e. I think if 5e fails for me I'll just write my own game.

Here are my preferences
1. DM empowerment/open ended interpretation at the edges.
2. Gritty. Level Drain. Rust Monsters. etc...
3. A long long skill system. 3e's is inadequately short.
4. I like flexible options that are by area NOT class. So martial abilities are open to all characters. Magic is a common source tapped into in different ways.
5. Simulationist, process sim, no plot coupons or dissociative mechanics.
6. Flavor baked into powers. Essential common effects in stat block.
7. PCs are not Gods nor are they the centerpiece of the world. The world is a strange and marvelous place. PCs make their way in that world and some become heroes. Some just make their way.

I could go on but I think most of you would get the idea.

 

[Mark CMG]

Doesn't that mostly confirm what we already expected, namely, that more people read novels and play boardgames than play RPGs?

It does make you wonder but also makes you wonder what draws folks to D&D novels and boardgames that doesn't attract them to D&D RPGs, insofar as it apparently isn't the RPG drawing them to those offshoot IP efforts.

 

[MichaelSomething]

i truly hate 4e and i wish it had never been written. I still haven't switched to pathfinder. I don't run a pathfinder game. I guess i own 3.5. I ran a 4e campaign but since that ended i took a hiatus from roleplaying. When i began developing my next campaign world, they announced 5e. Would i have played pathfinder if not? Maybe. More likely dcc, hackmaster, or coc.

I still feel a loyalty to the d&d brand. I want it to do well. I want it to be related to the game i started so long ago. So i hope for 5e. I think if 5e fails for me i'll just write my own game.

Here are my preferences
1. Dm empowerment/open ended interpretation at the edges.
2. Gritty. Level drain. Rust monsters. Etc...
3. A long long skill system. 3e's is inadequately short.
4. I like flexible options that are by area not class. So martial abilities are open to all characters. Magic is a common source tapped into in different ways.
5. Simulationist, process sim, no plot coupons or dissociative mechanics.
6. Flavor baked into powers. Essential common effects in stat block.
7. Pcs are not gods nor are they the centerpiece of the world. The world is a strange and marvelous place. Pcs make their way in that world and some become heroes. Some just make their way.

I could go on but i think most of you would get the idea.

gurps?

 

[pemerton]

what draws folks to D&D novels and boardgames that doesn't attract them to D&D RPGs

They like B fantasy fiction and/or boardgaming? D&D isn't just an RPG system: it's a particular take on generic fantasy tropes, plus its own weirdness.

RPGing does seem to be something of a minority hobby, but there appears to be a market for the fiction that it produces.

 

[Jupp]

It does make you wonder but also makes you wonder what draws folks to D&D novels and boardgames that doesn't attract them to D&D RPGs, insofar as it apparently isn't the RPG drawing them to those offshoot IP efforts.

I think because boardgames do not have the stigma attached to them that they are complicated, archaic and that they belong into the realm of geekdom. As for books it is less a question of D&D being the setting but because they are fantasy themed general and they are light reading. And just because you like reading fantasy books does not mean that you are a board/rpg gamer. It could make you one but I imagine that not that many readers of D&D books would make the jump over to the boardgame, or even the rpg product itself.
The marketing folks at WotC will tell you that the books/boardgames are the entry point for the RPG but the question is what percentage will actually make that transition.

 

[Jupp]

Yup, I meant how many of the same designers and writers would likely still be there. Forget about the "captain" at WotC, we know the same captain won't be there. But as the question goes, if you replace every board and nail in a ship, is it still the same ship? Of course, that might be more of a rules question.

You could compare it to the Star Wars novels, somehow. There are and have been dozens of different writers creating SW novels over the past decades but even if they introduced their own parts and pieces to the setting with their books the overall picture still adheres to the core that was defined by Lucas back then.

 

[Emerikol]

It does make you wonder but also makes you wonder what draws folks to D&D novels and boardgames that doesn't attract them to D&D RPGs, insofar as it apparently isn't the RPG drawing them to those offshoot IP efforts.

A board game is an evenings entertainment that is begun and ended that day. "Mostly". We aren't talking wargames here so much as just games. Wargames though still have a definite beginning and end.

D&D is a pretty big commitment. In my playstyle it is a massive DM commitment. Fun for me but not something everyone necessarily wants. Even players though are more invested time wise than they would be for a board game. A lot of people don't want to spend that kind of time on a hobby.

I find myself thinking this way on other stuff. I have a choice of a six hour miniatures game or a one hour indie game and I often find myself choosing the one hour option. I really like roleplaying so the extra commitment is worth it but that may not be true for a majority of the populace.

 

[Emerikol]

gurps?

Well every game has some elements and perhaps gurps does meet a few but it falls short on a lot of the others.