D&D 5E Is It Time To Not Assign Spellcasting Classes ANY Casting Mechanics?

[Sadras]

I think we are destined to disagree on this matter. I know where you are coming from and understand why, but I dont see 'dumbing-down' (for lack of a better descriptor) the wizard class as a requirement to lure fresh meat away from their other hobbies. I played D&D Basic when I was 12-13 and understood the rules just fine and I played a Vancian wizard as my first class.

Also given the success of 3.X and Pathfinder with their feat lists, skills, paragon paths, Vancian and 4E tomes of powers, I am confident a lone Vancian Wizard will not deter any interest in the hobby due to complexities.

 

[Kavon]

I think we are destined to disagree on this matter. I know where you are coming from and understand why, but I dont see 'dumbing-down' (for lack of a better descriptor) the wizard class as a requirement to lure fresh meat away from their other hobbies. I played D&D Basic when I was 12-13 and understood the rules just fine and I played a Vancian wizard as my first class.

I suppose so.
I don't see it as 'dumbing-down' things, since all the options would still be present. It's just presented in a friendlier way for new people.
Also, whether you had no problems with getting into it doesn't mean everyone else has the same ease of absorbing how it all works.

Also given the success of 3.X and Pathfinder with their feat lists, skills, paragon paths, Vancian and 4E tomes of powers, I am confident a lone Vancian Wizard will not deter any interest in the hobby due to complexities.

And I've also seen many people try the game out and not being interested in continuing playing because it's too much effort for them (in their busy lives).

I guess what I'm trying to say is.. that I'd like the threshold for entering to be lowered while preserving the options and complexity for those that have crossed it already.

Instead of telling new players to suck it up and throwing them to the sharks, I'd rather flip a few pages to get to the parts that I'm interested in (cause that's all it is, flipping a few pages), and have the new players get right into the game, so they can feel comfortable with it and get the fun times rolling.

I suppose I should be happy that WotC have set their eyes on a simple core game with expanded options. I just think that if they're going to make things simple, Vancian spellcasting shouldn't be part of this simple core, but instead be one of the expanded options.

 

[Sadras]

And I've also seen many people try the game out and not being interested in continuing playing because it's too much effort for them (in their busy lives).

I guess what I'm trying to say is.. that I'd like the threshold for entering to be lowered while preserving the options and complexity for those that have crossed it already.

Ive seen players like that, not wanting to invest time and effort into the rules - sadly those are the players who are not going to invest financially into the hobby. The best game for those players is a free-form narrative style play where the DM (has to be good) runs a system free of rules and the character sheet is usually void of numbers, but has a few character descriptors (i.e. fat, strong, perceptive, charismatic, fearful...etc). Then use the d20 - anything above 10 is a success anything below 11 is a failure with situational bonuses and penalties depending on the task and the descriptors of the characters.
Something light along those lines should be far more appealing to those kind of players than a full blown system.

 

[Kavon]

Ive seen players like that, not wanting to invest time and effort into the rules - sadly those are the players who are not going to invest financially into the hobby.

I play D&D with friends. I've had friends that tried to get into it, bought the PHB and all, but with their job taking up so much time, they only have time for it when we play the game. After a while, the group fizzled because the new players lost interest because they couldn't get into the game enough.

Because I play with friends, and we play D&D, I also don't want to be forced to switch to some other game when another friend, who is interested in what we do those weekends, wants to try it out. I want him to be able to join in on what we're already doing.
I want to be able to hand him the book the rest of us are using, and have him look through it and not be blown away by complexity and option overload. I might be exaggerating a bit here, but it piles up regardless.
I want him to be able to make the character he wants to play, one he can use without adding on all sorts of intricate things, and then get on with the game.

As far as I know, 5th edition is supposed to allow for different players at the same table to enjoy different degrees of complexity, and this is exactly how that would be achieved. No "basic" books/PDFs, just the Player's Handbook.