D&D 5E Frustrated with Next

[Uller]

The game is not even beta...beta means user testing just prior to release to find bugs that QA missed and possibly to get feed back for 1.x releases...this is pre-alpha. The game is still in development. The features are not yet fully spec'd, much less implemented.

So I don't think it's fair to expect that DDN be ready to be your game of choice. As others have said, there are 4 other editions of D&D that you can draw from to fill in the holes that DDN has not yet filled.

For my part, I love 4e...I've only be playing it since the red box came out and I don't feel like I've fully explored it but DDN has reminded me how slow 4e plays compared to previous editions. So my group has implemented some DDN like changes to 4e while we wait for DDN to flesh out.

 

[Obryn]

I havent experienced that issue with monsters and no one else has complained about them being so easy that its unplayable. A little too easy? Sure. But not unplayably so and its an easy adjustment to make anyway.

The trap thing may or may not be true, I personally hardly ever use them and find the abundance of traps in most D&D to be implausible at best, so I havent noticed any problem. But I'm sure that he's pretty grossly exaggerating that problem too. And anyway thats also extremely easy to adjust.

Saying "I have to raise the DC of traps a little, oh noes this is totally unplayable" is just plain silly.

I think there are still some things you aren't getting. In a playtest, "an easy adjustment to make" isn't acceptable. I'd hazard to say that in a playtest, your job as a playtester is to play as close to the actual rules as possible. If you houserule and adjust, your input on how the rules actually work is next to useless. (You can say, "This is so bad I had to houserule it. Here's how I fixed it" but that's it.)

Not only is "this is easy for a DM to fix" really, really bad advice for a playtest, but it's counter-productive. Because if you encourage people to fix it on the DM side during a playtest, you're getting a broken rule set that requires the DM to fix it on publication.

And with traps ... Really? "I don't use them, don't care, but I'm pretty sure you're just whining anyway even thought I don't know anything about it."

Talk about issues with the beta yes, hyperventilate yourself into hysterics like that over petty problems? Come on, chill out a little.

Part of the point of a playtest is to complain about petty problems.

And come on, there's no hint of hysterics in the OP. Telling people to "chill out" when there's no obvious reason to think they're in "hysterics" is just Stupid Forum Tricks 101.

-O

 

[Uller]

Not only is "this is easy for a DM to fix" really, really bad advice for a playtest, but it's counter-productive. Because if you encourage people to fix it on the DM side during a playtest, you're getting a broken rule set that requires the DM to fix it on publication.

Sure. But the playtest is also clearly not a comprehensive set of rules ready for a full blown campaign. Any attempt to do that infers house rules or at least some serious management of expectations.

 

[Obryn]

Sure. But the playtest is also clearly not a comprehensive set of rules ready for a full blown campaign. Any attempt to do that infers house rules or at least some serious management of expectations.

Agreed 100% with that, too. It's a playtest, not a complete RPG system. But if the issues with monster & traps persist, I can see it influencing the capacity for long-term play, anyway.

-O

 

[billd91]

And come on, there's no hint of hysterics in the OP. Telling people to "chill out" when there's no obvious reason to think they're in "hysterics" is just Stupid Forum Tricks 101.

I may not have used the term hysterics, but I think advising someone to chill out is perfectly fine when they say they're "frustrated as heck" that a game isn't suitable for something it isn't expected to be suitable for. That sounds like a lot of frustration that would be best managed by setting expectations properly and chilling out when higher expectations aren't met.

 

[Retreater]

I may not have used the term hysterics, but I think advising someone to chill out is perfectly fine when they say they're "frustrated as heck" that a game isn't suitable for something it isn't expected to be suitable for.

Right. However, I figured that since character creation rules, advancement rules, encounter design, etc., are in the rules - that these would be functional. I know that the system is not perfect, and I'm not expecting perfection, but I would like a more coherent system than what has been offered. And yes, I know that it is not as polished of a system currently as any published edition of D&D.

So we were attempting to playtest D&D 5E/Next in an ongoing adventure style - not as an epic, mega campaign. Just playing through a couple linked adventures, like levels 1-5 or something. I am frustrated because it does not do this well, IMO.

Retreater

 

[tlantl]

Right. However, I figured that since character creation rules, advancement rules, encounter design, etc., are in the rules - that these would be functional. I know that the system is not perfect, and I'm not expecting perfection, but I would like a more coherent system than what has been offered. And yes, I know that it is not as polished of a system currently as any published edition of D&D.

So we were attempting to playtest D&D 5E/Next in an ongoing adventure style - not as an epic, mega campaign. Just playing through a couple linked adventures, like levels 1-5 or something. I am frustrated because it does not do this well, IMO.

Retreater

Yes a lot of us agree with this assessment. At some point these things and most of the rest that crop up in the future will be taken care of. All we can really do is find the stuff that's broken, take notes and give our feedback to the devs when they send us the surveys.

The thing is that a lot of the stuff we're reporting is sending them back to square one so the changes that come from our feedback might be a packet or two behind. This is likely the reason we haven't gotten the next five levels yet.

Have a look at the next legends and lore article they are addressing the rogue's skill mastery and making some other class adjustments.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Ok. I'm frustrated to all heck with D&D Next. My group has wanted me to run it as an ongoing adventure in place of a normal campaign, and I am finding that it is in such an underdeveloped state that it is not only unsuited for long term play, but also not fun to play (IMO).

I'm sure you're sick of hearing 'it's a playtest,' but, well, it is. A campaign really needs a stable rules-set as a foundation, so pick one and stick with it. 5e isn't going to even be a candidate for 'stable rules-set' until it's officially released, so don't even try. Pick an iteration of the rules that's worked well for you in the past, codify whatever variants you feel your campaign needs, show it to your players, make sure it's something they can live with, maybe play a bit, iron it out, then 'freeze' the rules for the whole campaign.

As for trying to beat 5e into that kind of shape: Mike Mearls and his team of professional, full-time, game designers have given themselves a year or two to do that. Do you really want to try to duplicate that effort?


Of course, if you're trying to run 5e in a campaign to /test/ it, more power to you, and be sure to give WotC all the feedback they can stand on how it's (not) working for you!

 

[fjw70]

I'm sure you're sick of hearing 'it's a playtest,' but, well, it is. A campaign really needs a stable rules-set as a foundation, so pick one and stick with it. 5e isn't going to even be a candidate for 'stable rules-set' until it's officially released, so don't even try. Pick an iteration of the rules that's worked well for you in the past, codify whatever variants you feel your campaign needs, show it to your players, make sure it's something they can live with, maybe play a bit, iron it out, then 'freeze' the rules for the whole campaign.

As for trying to beat 5e into that kind of shape: Mike Mearls and his team of professional, full-time, game designers have given themselves a year or two to do that. Do you really want to try to duplicate that effort?

I disagree. A playtest campaign works just fine as long ad the DM and players are flexible.

 

[Umbran]

Talk about issues with the beta yes, hyperventilate yourself into hysterics like that over petty problems? Come on, chill out a little.

Please don't make it personal - that way lies argument and acrimony. Address the logic and content of the post, not the person or emotional state of the poster.