D&D 5E On Healing and Broccoli

[S'mon]

I would rather have all in-combat healing be rare and special, rather than assumed as part of the combat system. Actually out of combat magic healing could be done away with also, this would allow for combats to be much less threatening but still challenge the PCs by ablating hp, as in pre-3e D&D, especially pre-AD&D.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Personally, i like my veggies, and enjoyed the role of healer.

That said, the whole "my god doesn't grant me healing/undead turning" option was one of the reasons I liked 2Ed Priests more than any other iteration.

I like this... or would have liked it a lot more if there were codified roles back then.

If someone wanted to play a cleric of Wee Jas, with no healing, they're a controller... and someone else might want to play a leader.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I like this... or would have liked it a lot more if there were codified roles back then.

If someone wanted to play a cleric of Wee Jas, with no healing, they're a controller... and someone else might want to play a leader.

Witch is why i loved 4e, my fighter,theif,cleric and mage might be

Warlord, Invoker,Ranger, swordmage
or
warden, avenger, psion, shaman

 

[Tovec]

To OP mostly: I think that you more or less hit the right target with what is wrong with clerics. They are too focused on one type of heal. The magic missile = cure light wounds is a little off but fairly fitting.

I disagree with your solutions and premises beyond that however.
The solution presented turns a cleric into something else, sustained buffs that they have to concentrate on seems to be problematic, as [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] says. It also strikes of being too dissimilar from what clerics, imho, should be doing. They shouldn't be sustained effects, like a bard's singing might be, they should stick to healing(or cursing) and then extra powers based on deity.

I think that part of the problem is that many people at WotC have become too focused on what cleric is at its core without looking at further options, or even options that have dropped by the wayside in previous editions and bringing those back.

What I would personally do is something along the following; make them more into a white-mage of my old gaming roots. Give them healing, make it class related not necessarily spell related. This may mean they have spells and healing and "turn undead" abilities listed. Then, give them spells but the spells should be restricted or enhanced by the deity they have. A fire god grants his clerics fire spells, for combat or other uses similar. The healing (or cursing) is completely secondary, but could be in basic form for backup healing. Then if a cleric wants to get spells that heal give them extra effects.

This would be like the wizard who gets a basic spell at-will that damages an enemy. Give the cleric a basic at-will ability that heals people.

But like I said, and you alluded to, make the healing spells different. Not all spells need to be the same basic spell with more power (cure light, medium, serious). Give them different forms of healing, ones with extreme range, ones with extra effects, ones that combine healing with regeneration or a buff of some kind. Let them combine different kinds of healing at higher levels, combine a stronger form of healing with a longer range or bypassing XYZ or always hitting or whatever.

Do this on top of deity related spells.

Then compare that to wizards. If wizards get scorching ray, flaming sphere, wall of fire, meteor swarm, fireball, etc. Then clerics should have as many varied options that aren't just increasing the amount of healing dice that spell provides.

Just my two cents.

 

[bbjore]

If I've understood you correctly, I think you've hit on the real reason why healing is "boring" (for many, at least): it is fundamentally reactive rather than active, so if you are playing a pure healer your choices of action are dictated primarily by what the NPCs and monsters do, rather than by your own round-by-round decisions about how to engage the situation via your PC.

That's exactly what I meant. In combat healing is reactive, there is often very little decision on the player's part on what they're going to do when it occurs.

Doing it as a free action essentially sidesteps the problem, but still sees healing as somebody needs it, somebody gets it. It just no longer has much of a cost to the healer in the action economy, but that still doesn't make it particularly interesting.

A good solution to the problem would make it not magic missile the heal, and would still involve a number of interesting choices on the part of the player. It would probably help to spread the burden around a little as well, but that particularly rubs a lot of people the wrong way.

Also problematic is the fact that HP are a huge part of the game's balance and resource system. It's hard to make a healing specialist that doesn't completely overshadow other options and make standard fights a breeze due to their healing abilities.

 

[Rhenny]

One of the interesting things I've noticed in the playtesting with my group so far is that the best way to avoid Cleric healbot is to make sure the cleric does his share of killing. Radiant Lance has really been a terrific boon for mitigating the need for healing since it gives a cleric something useful to do (especially at lower levels) pretty much any time.

With monsters calibrated as they are now (lower ACs, HP and low "to hit" scores) healing is less necessary when the party (including the Cleric) can deal quick death. Many people argue that Spiritual Weapon is ultimately more powerful than cure moderate wounds because it can be sustained round after round and it has the potential to do over 3d8 or 4d8 damage over 5 or 6rounds in addition to what the Cleric can do with his own action in those rounds.

Overall, I like the way that feels. I'd also like to see different Cleric dieties (or domains..even better) grant different Channel Divinity powers. For the healing Clerics, they can use Channel Divinity to heal. For other Clerics, they would get other abilities, but could also fall back on some of the healing spells if necessary.

As for the OP, I would definitely like to see more interesting healing spells in the game. It can only help.

 

[Aenghus]

Healing is an area that screams out for options, lots of options, as so may people are crying out for very different treatments. Which makes designing the cleric, and any other healer classes more difficult, unfortunately.

I think non-healing priests are best implemented as non-clerics - it makes sense to me that clergy of Wee Jas can be wizards or necromancers, clergy of a war god could be fighters or paladins, a trickster god could be thieves etc. Trying to make clerics serve for every priest concept loads too much into the class, and is a flavour and balance nightmare.

 

[Greg K]

That said, the whole "my god doesn't grant me healing/undead turning" option was one of the reasons I liked 2Ed Priests more than any other iteration.

This. If all clerics in 5e have healing and turn undead (also add medium armor, heavy armor, and d8 hd), the cleric will continue to suck ( in my opinion).

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

Well, as a vegetarian will tell you, vegetables themselves don't have to be gross; you just need to stop treating them like an afterthought.

Healing issues aside, veggies are not afterthoughts. They're just boring...at best. They're offensive at worst. My mother tried every veggie recipe in the book to convince me otherwise as I was growing up, and the only ones that succeeded did so because they mixed veggies with copious quantities of other foods.

Sorry for my completely-miss-the-point-of-the-analogy diatribe, but some of us just don't have the taste buds to handle veggies. In the interest of contributing something to the topic at hand...

Doesn't every edition have at least a couple healing spell options other than the bog standard Cures? Regenerate, Heal...I know 4e has its own plethora of options, including a healbot build.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Healing issues aside, veggies are not afterthoughts. They're just boring...at best. They're offensive at worst. My mother tried every veggie recipe in the book to convince me otherwise as I was growing up, and the only ones that succeeded did so because they mixed veggies with copious quantities of other foods.

My poor deprived friend...

There are all those world cuisines out there that might have something to tittillate even YOUR taste buds!

I recently went to a Turkish restaurant and had lamb kebabs with a smoked eggplant purée. Eggplant is one of those veggies I could take or leave...but I'm going back for that purée- it was THAT good.

Then there was this cook in Russia who did a Foamed Cream of Wild Mushroom soup...it actually evaporated in my mouth. Fan-damn-tastic! (Not worth the price of a plane ticket to Moscow, but I'm definitely tripping to figure out how it was done!)

Err...

And I want to play the clerical equivalent to that Foamed Cream of Wild Mushroom Soup!


(I wonder if anyone noticed I was a tad off-topic?)