D&D 5E Poll: What is a Level 1 PC?

[Odhanan]

Per AD&D First Edition PH, a level 1 fighter is a Veteran, whereas most people in the world are level 0 mundane folks. This means that level 1 characters are already a cut above from the rest. They have seen battles as men-at-arms or have been guards. They started dabbling in real magic. They have been invested with divine inspiration by their gods. They have just stepped through the threshold into the unknown, the dungeon or the wilderness, but they are not heroes yet. They must prove themselves through their deeds and survive to get to that point.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Upper_Krust still mocks me regularly because 20 years ago running 1e I miscalculated Lolth's doubled hp at 122 instead of 132, in a game he wasn't even playing in...

You suck at maths you doofus! 122 LOL!

 

[Upper_Krust]

I don't recall players ever doing any of these things. In particular "proudly present you their homemade class"?! That's just hilarious. I'd probably boot that player, unless they were a good friend, in which case I would mercilessly mock them for years.

Just remembered you let me play a homemade class in WEG Star Wars D6 back in about 1989 ish.

It was part Bounty Hunter part Jedi, the character was Dak Phoenix who (after many adventures) sacrificed himself taking out all those Imperial Ships at the space-port. Imperial scum!!

The reason for the custom build was because the base Jedi character back in those days had (a piddling) 3d Dexterity and I thought 4d was better in a campaign where everyone else was playing characters with 5d in strength or dexterity (indeed wasn't "Clone Pilot" another custom class of Bob's? ).

It should be noted however, that classes in WEG Star Wars all added up to a set number of dice so custom class building was pretty well balanced.

 

[S'mon]

Just remembered you let me play a homemade class in WEG Star Wars D6 back in about 1989 ish.

WEG Star Wars did not have classes. What I let you (and Irv etc) do was create new attribute/skill distributions that differed from the starting templates, which were basically pregen PCs. Probably not a good idea, as too easy to min-max, but nothing like creating a new class, more like a new stat array & skill distribution that differed from existing pregens.

 

[Hussar]

Unless of course I want a complete character as a 5th level challenge. If I am taking the time to stat this cook out before he is encountered then I probably have some inkling that he's going to be encountered and a challenge (perhaps in more than just cooking) for the PC's. The thing I find hard to understand is that people don't think combat ability for commoners and peasants wouldn't increase over time in a world as dangerous and monster-filled as your typical D&D world as presented in the books. I would expect even non-adventurers to have proficiency in combat. YMMV of course...

Well, let me ask this. Why is your cook an equivalent challenge to an ogre? Your cook is a CR 4 creature. If the typical person in the world advances in combat ability, why are orcs and goblins considered a threat? I mean, any adult male over the age of 30 should be at least second if not third level - meaning he's more than a match for any orc that wanders by. Three times as many HP, same BAB, that sort of thing.

So why are orcs and goblins considered threats?

 

[Cadence]

So why are orcs and goblins considered threats?

You mean you haven't been giving all the monsters class levels too ?!?! That tribe of Kobolds that live near the gnolls, bugbears, and hill giants should really give some medium-to-high level parties a surprise!

 

[Neonchameleon]

WEG Star Wars did not have classes. What I let you (and Irv etc) do was create new attribute/skill distributions that differed from the starting templates, which were basically pregen PCs. Probably not a good idea, as too easy to min-max, but nothing like creating a new class, more like a new stat array & skill distribution that differed from existing pregens.

And to think that Old Geezer talks about having played a baby balrog as a homebrew class just because he wanted to.

 

[Mallus]

Well, let me ask this. Why is your cook an equivalent challenge to an ogre? Your cook is a CR 4 creature. If the typical person in the world advances in combat ability, why are orcs and goblins considered a threat? I mean, any adult male over the age of 30 should be at least second if not third level - meaning he's more than a match for any orc that wanders by. Three times as many HP, same BAB, that sort of thing.

So why are orcs and goblins considered threats?

To speak for a moment in the defense of linking all abilities to character level (and thus assigning all NPCs "class" levels of some sort)...

... this produces a setting kinda like Stephen Chow movies; specifically Shaolin Soccer and Kung Fu Hustle.

Their default assumption is: any sufficiently advanced skill is indistinguishable from kung fu (mastery).

So it follows that an excellent butcher, baker, or pork bun-maker also has top-shelf martial arts skills, because of their chi or something.

This is an... illogical default assumption, but nevertheless, a very cool one.

 

[Imaro]

Well, let me ask this. Why is your cook an equivalent challenge to an ogre? Your cook is a CR 4 creature. If the typical person in the world advances in combat ability, why are orcs and goblins considered a threat? I mean, any adult male over the age of 30 should be at least second if not third level - meaning he's more than a match for any orc that wanders by. Three times as many HP, same BAB, that sort of thing.

So why are orcs and goblins considered threats?

Ok, this is confusing me... is your only problem with class based NPC design that combat ability rises with level? If so, then isn't that more of an issue with how the class was designed as opposed to the general system. I mena you could just as easily have a commoner class with little to no combat advancement. I guess I'm not seeing how this one issue that is being harped on by numerous people makes NPC's with classes a bad system as opposed to 3.x being an implementation of it they didn't like for their particular campaign world.

 

[Imaro]

To speak for a moment in the defense of linking all abilities to character level (and thus assigning all NPCs "class" levels of some sort)...

... this produces a setting kinda like Stephen Chow movies; specifically Shaolin Soccer and Kung Fu Hustle.

Their default assumption is: any sufficiently advanced skill is indistinguishable from kung fu (mastery).

So it follows that an excellent butcher, baker, or pork bun-maker also has top-shelf martial arts skills, because of their chi or something.

This is an... illogical default assumption, but nevertheless, a very cool one.

Of course nothing inherent in an NPC's w/classes system makes this true. Just saying.