D&D 5E READ AND REPLY TO THIS 5E WARLORD THREAD, SOLDIER

[Manbearcat]

I wanted to break this out of the podcast thread and post a poll to get some specific numbers and hopefully some specific commentary that reveals people's expectations.

Here is 10 levels of a quick and dirty, made-up Warlord on a funky Cleric/Rogue hybrid chassis. This is not on a Fighter chassis. I personally don't see how can get to the below with the Fighter, some maneuvers and a Background/Specialty. Do others? If so, how? How invasive this is to people's "immersion/believability threshold" that are heavily vested in that interest? How close is this (considering the limitations of transcribing 4e classes to 5e) to a Warlord that a 4e player would enjoy playing (thematically and tactically)?

Warlord (Field Marshal)

Ability Adjustment: +1 to your Strength, Intelligence, or Charisma score.
Starting Hit Points: 8 + Constitution modifier
Armor and Weapon Proficiencies: Light armor, medium armor, and shields
Weapon Proficiencies: All simple and martial weapons
Hit Dice: 1d8 per warlord level
Hit Points: 1d8 (or 5) + your Constitution modifier per warlord level gained

Level	Weapon Attack	That's an Order	MDDice	MDB	Class Features (* See below*)
1	+1	1/day	NA	NA	BCT, TaO, VoaTT
2	+1	2/day	NA	NA
3	+1	2/day	NA	NA	SS
4	+2	2/day	NA	NA	KTE
5	+2	3/day	NA	NA
6	+2	3/day	1d6	NA	Combat Expertise
7	+2	3/day	1d6	NA	AAO
8	+2	4/day	1d6	NA
9	+3	4/day	1d6	NA	DDoM
10	+3	4/day	2d6	NA	MoI

1 - (BCT) Battle Captain's Tactics - As an action, you can use any of the below 3 Tactics:

Better Part of Valor - As an action, you can make a melee or ranged attack. One ally can then use their reaction to move up to 10 feet. This movement does not provoke opportunity attacks.

Direct the Strike - As an action, one ally attacks or casts an at-will spell with advantage against an enemy of your (their) choice. Your Martial Damage Dice, if any, is added to their damage.

Phalanx Formation - As an action, you make an attack. On its next turn, if the enemy attacks an ally while you are adjacent to it, your ally can use a reaction to impose disadvantage on the attack roll.

1 - (TaO) That's an Order - A number of times per day, you can issue one of the below Orders:

Fortune Favors the Bold - As an action, you can expend a use of your TaO to give a number of allies equal to your Intelligence modifier an action that they must use immediately. If you are at least 11th level, the number of allies improves to your Intelligence modifier + 1.

Shake It Off - When an ally takes damage, you can expend a use of your TaO as a reaction. When you do so, reduce the damage the ally takes by 10. If you are at least 11th level, reduce the damage by 20 instead.

1 - (VoaTT) Veteran of a Thousand Treaties - You are trained in Knowledge Warfare and Persuade.

3 - (SS) Stirring Speech - Once per day, when your allies spend a Hit Die during a short rest, you can give them a bonus to their Hit Points gained equal to your Charisma modifier.

4 - (KTE) Know Thy Enemy - You and your allies have advantage on Sense Motive and Initative checks.

7 - (AAO) Against All Odds - You are immune to fear effects. As a reaction, when an ally makes a saving throw against a fear effect, you can provide that ally advantage on their saving throw.

9 - (DDoM) Don't Die on Me - If an attack or other effect drops an ally to 0 hit points or fewer and it fails to kill them outright, you can spend a reaction to allow them a DC 10 Constitution saving throw to drop to 1 hit point instead. Each time they succeed on this saving throw before taking a short rest, the DC increases by 5.

10 - (MoI) Master of Intel - You have advantage on any Intelligence of Charisma check used to gather information on an enemy's infrastructure, position, and means.

 

[GX.Sigma]

• Better Part of Valor works for me because the target uses their reaction. It doesn't break the action economy, and it's clear what it's doing. The "this movement does not provoke opportunity attacks" wording is problematic, though--it seems like the ability is supposed to disrupt one enemy enough to let an ally get away. Also, it shouldn't work if it doesn't hit. I'd write it like this:
  
  "Make a melee or ranged attack. On a hit, the target is unable to make opportunity attacks until its next turn. An ally of your choice within reach of the target may use a reaction to move 10 feet."
• Direct the Strike still feels too dissasociated. Also, it feels wrong that you not only give them an extra attack per round, but one with advantage. At the very least, it should use the target's reaction.
• I'm not sure what Phalanx Formation is trying to do. What in-world action does that represent?
• "That's an Order" as a daily ability feels far too metagame.
• VoaTT: Not sure why persuade, but sure.
• Stirring Speech: Why does a stirring speech help their wounds heal from a healer's kit? And why can you only do this once per day?
• KTE: First of all, having advantage on initiative is huge. Secondly, blanket bonus on all Sense Motive seems weird; it should specifically apply to sensing enemies' intentions (which is how you'll have to write it anyway, since there are no "sense motive checks" in D&DN). Thirdly, how does the Warlord's intuition help his allies with theirs? Does he shout out "Guys I think she's lying!" right in the middle of the conversation with the drow princess?
• AAO: This could actually go further: the hobgoblins in the book are just straight-up immune to fear as long as they can see each other within 30 feet. If you were to lift that mechanic, it would look like this:
  
  "You cannot be frightened, and allies within 30 feet cannot be frightened while they can see you."
  
  Though actually, it might be more interesting if the warlord isn't a fearless leader after all:
  
  "As long as you are not frightened, allies within 30 feet cannot be frightened while they can see you."
• MoI: Like, interrogation and gathering rumors? Sure.
• General impression: 4e power names bug me. They make it difficult to tell what the abilities are supposed to represent. Why not just call it what it is, like "disarm," "push," etc?

Also: I can only pick one option in the poll.

 

[Jester David]

Disregard

 

[n00bdragon]

The warlord is a class designed for a role. It's generally well known that D&D has various roles. Someone deals lots of damage. Someone keeps the monsters from squishing the squishy people. Someone casts the spell that makes all the monsters unhappy. Someone heals you when you get a boo boo. This has been consistent throughout D&D's history but for the longest time those roles were handed out distinctly to different classes (e.g. only the cleric or some form of divine magic caster could be the healer, etc) and only those with magic were allowed to bleed into other roles.

The warlord was designed to be a healer who isn't a divine caster. Whatever you have created up above is not a healer. It looks mostly like a fighter with some wildly underpowered abilities. The warlord is special for me because it broke the mold, broke the taboos, did its own thing, and was a full fledged healer in every regard just as good (and in some ways better) than the cleric but without being a clone. It filled a familiar and necessary role while still forging new ground.

 

[tuxgeo]

("You don't get to call me, 'Soldier' any more! I was discharged honorably!")

It's a decent start; but clearly it's only a start. Like the Rogue in the December, 2012 play-test packet, the Warlord should have a variety of different builds supported. (Bravura/Insightful/Inspiring/Resourceful/Skirmishing/Tactical would be another good start.)

So: I don't think it's rubbish; instead, I think it's a good start. Also, I don't think it breaks my immersion, because only a final product could do that.

 

[Libramarian]

I don't like the drill sergeant warlord flavor. I feel like it's a name change and a picture of R. Lee Ermey away from being an actual joke class, to be honest with you. I just don't see the appeal at all. If I was playing another character and the warlord player was really getting into ordering my character around that would get old pretty fast.

 

[Manbearcat]

Better Part of Valor works for me because the target uses their reaction. It doesn't break the action economy, and it's clear what it's doing. The "this movement does not provoke opportunity attacks" wording is problematic, though--it seems like the ability is supposed to disrupt one enemy enough to let an ally get away. Also, it shouldn't work if it doesn't hit. I'd write it like this:

"Make a melee or ranged attack. On a hit, the target is unable to make opportunity attacks until its next turn. An ally of your choice within reach of the target may use a reaction to move 10 feet."

Read the Spring Attack maneuver in the playtest. Its basically providing tactical mobility to an ally via extending the tactical benefits of that maneuver to them.

Direct the Strike still feels too dissasociated. Also, it feels wrong that you not only give them an extra attack per round, but one with advantage. At the very least, it should use the target's reaction.

Like many of the Warlord abilities it has metagame narrative control and stance implications (in this case Director's stance). Its intentional. Again, a metagame threshold issue for people. This ability is the classic Warlord "force-multiplier" ability to deliver Striker damage by proxy of an allies offense (and buffing that offense).

I'm not sure what Phalanx Formation is trying to do. What in-world action does that represent?

Basically the classic shield wall, occupying the enemy with your offense and protecting each others' flanks. The ally basically uses your synergized offense/defense/cover to deflect bows. Tactically its extending the Shield Bash feat to him to use to protect himself.

That's an Order" as a daily ability feels far too metagame.

Again, intentional. Another metagame threshold issue.

VoaTT: Not sure why persuade, but sure.

Emulating the groomed acumen to get people to compromise wrought from considerable experience with parlays, armistices, treaties and negotiations with enemies.

Stirring Speech: Why does a stirring speech help their wounds heal from a healer's kit? And why can you only do this once per day?

Its "mommy kissing booboos away." Classic Warlord inspiring word healing; HPs as morale. Its the classic trope of the leader walking amongst hist troops after a battle and boosting morale with a word or a grab of the shoulder, or just making his presence felt, while they lick their wounds. Another metagame threshold.

KTE: First of all, having advantage on initiative is huge. Secondly, blanket bonus on all Sense Motive seems weird; it should specifically apply to sensing enemies' intentions (which is how you'll have to write it anyway, since there are no "sense motive checks" in D&DN). Thirdly, how does the Warlord's intuition help his allies with theirs? Does he shout out "Guys I think she's lying!" right in the middle of the conversation with the drow princess?

Check your latest playtest packet. Sense Motive is in there. Advantage on initiative is helpful, to be sure. Its not nearly as good as having the feat "Improved Initiative" but its a sliding scale of a few + bonus to initiative. Classic Warlord "aura" gives allies a + 2 bonus to initiative and another one gives + 2 to Insight and Perception. That is my way of rendering it in 5e.

* One thing of note, I'm not trying to hammer out perfect balance here. Just trying to emulate the tools of the 4e class and render them in the vein of the 5e engine. Wanted to do that and check people's "metagame thresholds" and see how they thought about the ability to create these abilities on a Fighter chassis with a background and specialty.

Also: I can only pick one option in the poll.

This is because I'm an idiot and didn't set up the poll correctly. Go me.

 

[I'm A Banana]

So, here's how I'd see the same mechanics in a Bard (now with annotations!):

Creating a Bard
[sblock=BARD?!]
The podcast mentioned that the "inspiring guy" is the Bard. Your particular vision of the Warlord focuses on the inspiration side of things, so I figured Bard might be a better fit than Fighter.
[/sblock]
Ability Adjustments: +1 to your Intelligence, Dexterity, or Charisma score. You use Charisma to inspire your allies, Intelligence to decipher lore, and Dexterity to stay agile and flexible.
Starting Hit Points: 8 + Constitution modifier
Armor Proficiencies: Light armor and shields. Your bardic tradition might grant you additional armor proficiencies.
Weapon Proficiencies: All simple weapons. Your bardic tradition might grand you additional weapon proficiencies
Hit Dice: 1d8 per bard level
Hit Points: 1d8 (or 5) + your Constitution modifier per bard level gained

[sblock= Proficiencies don't look like a warrior!]
Mostly this is a "flexible baseline" kind of design choice -- it allows you to make the nancypants magic-centric bards of 3e/4e. However, the bardic tradition, like the cleric's choice of deity, might affect how this looks -- clerics have few proficiencies as a base class, and their deity adds more. Bards can work the same way. I think fighters could work the same way, too, but they don't right now, so whatev.
[/sblock]

Level	Weapon Attack	Words of Inspiration	Class Features (* See below*)
1	+1	1/day	Voice of Inspiration, Bardic Tradition
2	+1	2/day	(etc.)
3	+1	2/day	(etc.)
4	+2	2/day	(etc.)
5	+2	3/day	(etc.)
6	+2	3/day	(etc.)
7	+2	3/day	(etc.)
8	+2	4/day	(etc.)
9	+3	4/day	(etc.)
10	+3	4/day	(etc.)

Level 1: Bardic Tradition
Different bardic colleges teach different styles of barding. Whether taught at a formal college, or simply tutored by an elder, or perhaps even just naturally picking up on what you're good at, you've learned a particular blend of music, magic, and martial prowess. Choose a tradition from the list below:

• Tradition of Trickery: (this is like the 3.5e illusionist-gnome-bard, with thief skills)
• Tradition of Lore: (this one focuses on spellcasting)
• Tradition of War: (this one is our Warlord)
• Tradition of the Wanderer: (this one gets a bit from each camp)

Tradition of War
As a student of the bardic tradition of war, you have mastered the rhythm and flow of the battlefield. The sounds of clashing blades, the clash of metal and metal, the screams of the victors and the moans of the defeated are yours to orchestrate and conduct as you see fit.
Girded for Battle: You are additionally proficient in medium armor and martial weapons.
War Lore: You are trained in Knowledge (warfare), Heraldry, and Persuade
Voice of Inspiration: You can spend your Voice of Inspiration to cause any of your maneuvers to affect all allies or enemies within earshot of you. Each die you spend has its effect on any target you desire, as long as that target can hear you.
Martial Damage Dice: You gain 1d6 Martial Damage Dice for each maneuver you possess.
Maneuvers: Directed Strike (LV 1), Threaten (LV 3), Warning (LV 5)/Encouragement (LV 5), Distraction (LV 7), Burst of Speed (LV 9)

• Directed Strike: As an action, you can spend one martial damage dice to allow an ally that can hear you to make an attack with a bonus equal to the roll of your die. You can spend additional martial damage die on this maneuver, and if you do, the ally gains a bonus to damage equal to the roll of all the additional dice you spend.
• Threaten: As a reaction, when an enemy in your weapon range makes an opportunity attack, you can spend martial damage dice deal damage to that enemy equal to the total roll of each die you spend.
• Warning: As a reaction, when an ally who can hear you takes damage, you can spend your martial damage die to reduce the damage that ally takes by the total roll of each die you spend.
• Distraction: As a reaction, when an is attacked by an enemy who can hear you, you can spend one martial damage die to reduce the enemy's attack roll by an amount equal to the roll of your die. You can spend additional martial damage die on this maneuver, and if you do, the enemy receives a penalty to damage equal to the roll of all the additional dice you spend.
• Encouragement: As a free action, you can spend one martial damage die on one ally who can hear you. They gain temporary HP equal to the roll of your die. You can spend extra dice on this maneuver, and if you do, you can affect one additional ally for each die you spend.
• Burst of Speed: As an action, you can spend martial damage dice to allow an ally who can hear you to move. For each martial damage die you spend, the ally can move 5 feet.

[sblock=MDD and Manuevers]
Just to show how comfortably the warlord's stereotypical abilities fit into the Maneuver rubrick, really. The numbers might need some massaging, but I think this covers all the bases of things that warlords do. The MDD = # of manuevers thing is mostly just a simplification -- you'll notice the Fighter's list of manuevers is currently a little staggered. This also allows the bard to potentially swap out a maneuver for a spellcasting level, or a skill trick, if you're not using pregenerated traditions.

Of course, this implies heavily that you could use these features on a Fighter, too, and you certainly could. Or a monk, I suppose? But the tradition is effectively a ready-made fighter fighting style, too. We'd need I think to twist some of the base abilities of a fighter (folks who like playing warlords generally seem to dislike the heavy armor, want fewer HPs, and would prefer Int/Cha over Str/Con), but I personally think that's well within the scope. PERSONALLY, I'd like to see a baseline fighter whose armor and weapon proficiencies depend, in part, on their fighting style. Something really dissonant about a duelist in heavy gear, man....and I really have no objection to a fighter who gets +1 to any ability score they want, but that's not kosher for others.
[/sblock]

[sblock=Voice of Inspiration]
I kept it simple here, but it'd be easy to complicate this into all sorts of daily abilities. There's nothing explicitly magical about this bard, so it's effectively a "martial daily," but it can also be fluffed as magic for those who like that style. Depending o the tradition, this could meta-magic up some stuff, expand the use of skill tricks, or do other awesome-sauce things. I could honestly even see it doing healing, and it could ride that same ridge: people who don't like martial healing can pretend it's magical, and people who DO like martial healing can pretend it's inspiration.

Personally, I'm a little fond of the decision points and strategies it creates. One enemy pummeled by a giant? Only need the single-target version. Everyone caught in a dragon's breath? Better use your Outside Voice! One ally has a chance to get in a solid hit on an elusive enemy? Just need the single-target version. Want to start off the combat with a DEVESTATING ambush? Begin with a SCREAM!
[/sblock]

[sblock=This Bard Looks Anemic...]
I really only included the options that would make for a decent "warlord" build. You could imagine various other traits as the bard goes up in level, or even at low levels, that could apply equally to a warlord or the stereotypical troubadour. The first thing that leaps to my mind is a follower, but that's probably better off as an opt-in kind of thing. I could also imagine some abilities that take effect during a rest (making your rests more effective!), or things that give skill bonuses ("SNEAK THROUGH THAT ORC CAMP LIKE A FLY ON THE TOE OF A HALFLING, MAGGOT!"). Those are up for negotiation. I wanted to make sure the core of the thing did what warlords do.
[/sblock]

[sblock=Popular Warlordesque Backgrounds and Specialties]
Specialties

• Ambusher (for your pro-active strategists)
• Defender (for your lead-from-the-front types)
• Mystical Healer ("you could have served as a medic in a military company, aiding injured soldiers while battle raged around you")
• Polearm Master (hello, Reach Weapons!)
• Reaper (Warlord with a greataxe? YES.)
• Sharpshooter (For our bowlords)
• Skirmisher (Leads the charge, then defends the flanks!)
• Skulker (this one seems hilarious to me: "I'll command you from back here, behind this bush...")
• Swashbuckler (I believe we have our Errol Flynn...)
• Additional Possibilities: A specialty focused on getting some "martial training" would round out the character. A specialty focused on tactical maneuvers would be really interesting, too.

Backgrounds

• Knight (ah, nobility)
• Noble (er...as above)
• Sage ("I know every fight that's been faught, every kingdom that's fallen...")
• Soldier (duuuuh)
• Thug ("Do not piss off General Rage!")
• Additional Possibilities: A background that represents being a social butterfly would help the Cha-monkeys, while one perhaps more obviously focused on history and military matters than the sage would be cool.

[/sblock]

Booyah.

 

[Jared Espley]

I like that Shake it Off is DR and not straight up healing. Seems flavorfully appropriate for the warlord.

 

[Manbearcat]

@Kamikaze Midget I'm not going to speak for Warlord players (I only DM games) but I know the class quite well and that is an extremely solid rendering by way of the maneuver/martial damage dice system. Obviously numbers need tweaked and so forth but I would say that you've captured the thematic spirit and tactical depth (with consideration for the limits of the 5e core engine's tactical depth relative to 4e) of the class extremely well there.

Again, given that your render is fully martial and fraught with metagame implications, I wonder what the reaction by the metagame averse would be to it. I'd be interested in hearing the commentary.