Roleplaying since the 80s and I'm really tired!

[fjw70]

I guess don't understand the new material burnout. If you don't want to use the new material then don't. Even with a game like 4e if you want to play with just one book just use the original PHB and ignore errata. Boom, one book with everything you need (assuming you aren't the DM).

 

[Bedrockgames]

Thanks for the sentiment, BRG!

Now I have a couple of questions for you. Do you think there is any other way to design and market a successful tabletop RPG that doesn't follow the traditional formulas? In other words, is it just commonly accepted that a business model designed and marketed for a niche audience at least 20 years ago is still the best/only way today? Can there be a robust, fun, and viable RPG system/product that doesn't require volumes of books and rules to make it work?

I think so. I believe a simple core book with lot of adventure material as supplements could work. Peraonally I feel the splat model isnt sustainable. But that is just me. Basically have one book you really need and everything else you buy just adds adventure to the game.

 

[jhunton]

jacob lewis I am glade you are still in the ranks of gamer. so thanks for shareing .and GAME ON oh play what ever you like but aways play.

 

[lin_fusan]

I'm a big fan of trying out new systems and new games, even (or especially) the weird, quirky, indie/story/small press/whatever-you-want-call-not-D&D games. Even the ones that I end up not liking, because you still learn a lot from a game, system, or setting you don't like.

 

[Blackbrrd]

Sometimes I find people a bit weird. If you don't want to spend money on game supplements that you really don't need, why do you do it? As a DM I do purchase the occational adventure and I am just sad they don't churn out more in the category I like.

The last time I playe 3E, I only allowed stuff from the PHB, DMG and the MM. Other than that I used the adventure, Red Hand of Doom and what I came up with myself. The focus was mainly on the role-playing aspect and less on the rules. It worked out pretty well. There is little to no reason why people like the OP can't do the same thing.

 

[Jacob Lewis]

Sometimes I find people a bit weird. If you don't want to spend money on game supplements that you really don't need, why do you do it? As a DM I do purchase the occational adventure and I am just sad they don't churn out more in the category I like.

The last time I playe 3E, I only allowed stuff from the PHB, DMG and the MM. Other than that I used the adventure, Red Hand of Doom and what I came up with myself. The focus was mainly on the role-playing aspect and less on the rules. It worked out pretty well. There is little to no reason why people like the OP can't do the same thing.

I find people weird, too. They seem to have a simple answer for everyone else's problems or opinions because, for whatever reason, it doesn't apply to them. So let's see if I can help you to understand why it might still be a problem for people who might not be so weird.

First of all, I'm assuming you have a bias for 3rd Edition since you only mention your experience with it. I played it as well, so I can agree that it wasn't difficult to ignore the extraneous or supplemental material that was truly considered "optional". Heck, 2nd edition was even easier; they had sourcebooks that had the title "Option" in it! (i.e. Player's Option - Combat & Tactics, Campaign Option - Council or Wyrms, etc.)

Fourth Edition, however, was a different story. WotC (Hasbro) was smart, but they were only thinking of themselves. See, there was no longer a set of three books to define "CORE" of the game because everything was considered "core". So every book or supplement had something for everyone! PHB1 was *not* acceptable to stand alone, unless you were fine with cutting out traditional options for characters, like half-orcs, gnomes, bards, and druids. (That's the short sample list, btw.) Later on, they decided on a new approach to produce the "Essentials" line of TEN "all-you-need" products as the new core line. Yet, it was unsatisfactory as they attempted the ever-tricky line of introducing a whole new design philosophy without trying to make all the previous products invalid or obsolete. Ultimately, it was not a very good plan.

All that aside--and I must apologize for the forthcoming tone, but --what makes you think that "people like me" need to listen to people like you who believe we don't already do what you do, that we aren't capable of deciding for ourselves what we want or don't want, or that anything you do may not be anything anyone else wants to do? You said it yourself, "I am just sad they don't churn out more in the category I like." Everyone's 'category' is different, my friend. Some people get what they want, while some wish they could have more. You are just basically telling me if I would be happier if I were just... well, YOU.

So what I will take from this is that YOU are happy with the game of your choice, which is great! Your game is still supported strongly with a great fanbase, and I may yet decide to return to it someday and be as happy as you are. But it seems you don't care for the next edition, or even the previous one (ie 4e), so I don't expect you can even relate to what I said in my original post. I don't normally waste time responding to negative comments, but it is important for me to show everyone else why comments like yours might be offensive to someone else.

PS I actually used Red Hand of Doom for parts of a 4e campaign! Still my favorite adventure in any edition! Game on!

EDIT: And for the record, I did not intend to single blackbrrd out because there are a few other similar responses in this thread. Everyone take their share accordingly.

 

[Jacob Lewis]

I think so. I believe a simple core book with lot of adventure material as supplements could work. Peraonally I feel the splat model isnt sustainable. But that is just me. Basically have one book you really need and everything else you buy just adds adventure to the game.

Thanks for the response! I agree. Game systems (RPGs) should support more playability (adventures) rather than bog it down with more rules and options (splatbooks). At the least, the former should far outweigh the latter. I don't need 8 new races and 8 more classes with 1000 more feats/backgrounds/themes to play every other month just to keep the game viable and interesting. If I do, then maybe there is something wrong with the game itself. Or perhaps the companies would like us to think that constant additions and changes are just part of the norm and we *should* accept that.

Follow-up question: Do you think you could have a complete game system contained in a single book that is less than 100 pages? (Ok, rhetoric. Obviously, you can!)

I may be trying to get at something here, just not sure what it is. Maybe I feel that (most of) the entire industry believes that a true RPG must fill either a HUGE book or several volumes of large books. Of all the new RPG titles I've seen released in the last few years (not including 4th Edition), it was one or the other. There may be exceptions, of course, but the fact that they slipped my notice might indicate that it was not a "top-shelf" release (ie if it escaped my notice, it most likely escaped a lot of other gamers!).

 

[Aeolius]

Back in the early 80s, a friend of the family introduced me to fantasy roleplaying games when I was about 12 years old. It was the Dungeons & Dragons Basic game in a red box, and I was hooked!

I am with you so far. I started with Basic back around 1979, which would have made me 14-15.

Being in the military, my family moved around a lot so it wasn't always easy to find the right group to play with. Sometimes, there was no one around to share my hobby that had become my passion. As I grew into adulthood, changed jobs and locations (and even relationships), my love for the game stayed with me.

I played D&D with my childhood friends and classmates. I went to college in a different state so I made new friends and formed a new group. When I graduated from college I gamed somewhat less, as I moved back home while my friends had moved out of state. So I gamed once or twice a year at most until I started running games online.

Yet, I still kept up with the books, the supplements, and almost every product even remotely associated with the game.

This is where we differ. When 2e was released, I didn’t care for the core rules as presented. Admittedly there were some cool supplements for 2e but I stuck with the 1e ruleset until 3e came along. I held fast with 3.5e when 4e came out, as again I did not care for the rules as presented. I have not been in a gaming store since 4e was released.

I am tired of spending more money for more versions of the same game I already have.

Then don’t.

I am tired of being dictated by this industry of what a roleplaying game is supposed to be and how to play it.

Then play it your way. A lot of the way 4e was presented before its release turned me off to that particular edition. Admittedly I am not fond of running stock dungeon crawls using core races.

I am tired of companies being greedy.

Can’t help you, there. To make money, companies have to sell things.

I am tired of paying for virtual goods and rented services in order to play a game.

Fair enough. I too prefer a purchase versus rental plan, when it comes to downloads and online play.

I am tired of reading articles about what halflings are supposed to look like and how to recognize monsters we've seen for reimagined and reinvented for many years.

Then use them your way. I have always preferred “Pini elves” over Tolkienesque ones.

(And in case you might ask, the true "feel" of any DnD game (to me) has very little to do with mechanics. It is a group of people, sitting around a table with make-believe characters and stories, collaborating to tell stories of adventure, action, suspense, and glory! It is about people having fun...

With the exception that since 1995 I have been playing exclusively online, through the use of message boards and chat rooms, I agree. I prefer my games to be “loosey goosey”, combat light are roleplay heavy, with an emphasis on story over stats.

I think it is important that I am able to let someone know why I (and maybe others like me) have decided to stay with what we have, make the best of what we got, and say goodbye to whatever may come. We are just tired of this business. Not the game.

Rant on, Brother Jacob.!

 

[Nellisir]

My point is that its still just a game, or at least it should be treated like one. It may be a very important and influential one, as it has been to me, but I think it is important that I am able to let someone know why I (and maybe others like me) have decided to stay with what we have, make the best of what we got, and say goodbye to whatever may come. We are just tired of this business. Not the game.

I completely understand where you're coming from. I hit a similar wall around 2008, with the advent of 4e. I was tired. I didn't want to deal with the crap, the opinions, the gnashing of teeth and tearing of clothes, the endless cycle, the thought that maybe -this- thing would be better. I couldn't take the numbers of 3e/d20/PF, had no interest in 4e, and remembered enough of 1e & 2e to not be that interested in the OSR.

I didn't hate any of it. I think 4e is a fine game, PF is pretty cool, and the older editions of D&D are just dandy. They're different ways to play, and expecting one to be right for everyone is expecting everyone to love the same food. Needless to say, that doesn't happen even between people that like each other. (my wife & I are going out to dinner tonight. I wanted an Irish restaurant & some decent lamb; she wanted Thai/Asian; or in other words, we both wanted what we grew up with. Obviously, we're getting Asian food. )

I still visited EN World, but that was about it. It was nice to be able to be more objective. I'm thinking of DMing again, but it took time and distance to achieve some clarity about what I really wanted from the system. I ran basically the same game under several different editions, so I don't buy the argument that you "can't" play this game or that game under system X, but I finally had space to think about what aspects of each edition were the most enjoyable, and what I really wanted to achieve.

So, I dunno what the point of this is. Good luck, I suppose. have fun. That's what it's about. Nothing else. Fun.

 

[Derren]

Just curious. How long do you play the same character?

And more importantly, how much Karma did this guy have?