Roleplaying since the 80s and I'm really tired!

[D'karr]

At least with 3E you could tweak your Ad&D worlds and characters to fit but when 4E came out that was impossible it totally wiped out 30 something years of the game.

Interesting to see this, we took our characters and D&D worlds, ported them over and kept trucking. The game played a heck of a lot closer to what we wanted than any of the other versions.

The most significant difference for us was that even with every single "optional" book in use, we didn't have the power creep problem. In every single edition before we'd have to limit "other" sources. We had to do core only in 3.x as every source ended up adding unwieldiness.

When we settled on 4e, we could play with Core Only, or add what we wanted without fear of "breaking" the game. At this point we tweak in almost every direction with hardly any issue. That is what has become more interesting to us, not a torrent of supplements, but a solid game that we can tweak easily without creating major issues.

 

[am181d]

If you want to play with fewer books/rules, you can just use the core book(s) for just about any RPG without needing to buy anything else. If you read those books and you want *more* that kind of undermines your argument...

 

[GX.Sigma]

And what if the only answer to your only question is "yes"? I don't suppose I could rely on you to name a few titles that I wouldn't already know about, or tried. Could I?

If you've never played FATE, you definitely should.

 

[Elf Witch]

Interesting to see this, we took our characters and D&D worlds, ported them over and kept trucking. The game played a heck of a lot closer to what we wanted than any of the other versions.

The most significant difference for us was that even with every single "optional" book in use, we didn't have the power creep problem. In every single edition before we'd have to limit "other" sources. We had to do core only in 3.x as every source ended up adding unwieldiness.

When we settled on 4e, we could play with Core Only, or add what we wanted without fear of "breaking" the game. At this point we tweak in almost every direction with hardly any issue. That is what has become more interesting to us, not a torrent of supplements, but a solid game that we can tweak easily without creating major issues.

Without doing major changes it was next to impossible to easily port characters from 3.5 to 4 even the game designers admitted that which was why you didn't see the handy conversion guide like you did for 2 to 3. Role playing wise it may not have made any difference but mechanic wise it did. Every PC and NPC had to be rebuilt that is a lot of work.

Take Shadowrun my character started in 1E when 2E came out I had to do a few tweaks the same when 3E came out. When 4E came out it was impossible to just tweak my hermetic mage she was way to powerful for the new edition. To play her I would had to rebuild her from scratch and the new build changed so much of what made the character the character. It wasn't just the rule changes there were a ron of flavor changes as well.

I felt the same way about DnD 4E not only did they change the rules they changed the flavor of the game and that flavor did not fit my world. I have always thought the biggest mistake WOTC did with 4E was slamming the door on 3E they should have tried to support both editions because they appeal to a different style of play.

 

[chaochou]

We are just tired of this business. Not the game.

I've felt this way for a long time. I stopped buying games based on the 'wall of books' publishing model sometime in the early 90s - I think Call of Cthulhu was the last RPG where I bought extensive setting books, guides, campaigns and scenarios.

But as @Balesir and @Defcon1 said, there are a lot of very good standalone games out there where one book is all you'll ever need or be sold.

I'd point to Apocalypse World. The mechanics engine has been adapted for Dungeon World, if you prefer fantasy, or Monsterhearts if you want Buffy-style supernatural teen angst.

Then there's The Burning Wheel, Burning Empires for a sci-fi take and Mouse Guard - using a simplified BW to replicate the comics (which seem to be a kind of Beatrix Potter meets The Three Musketeers mash-up).

You've got the FATE family - Spirit of the Century (Pulp), Diaspora (Sci-fi), Legends of Anglerre (Fantasy), Dresden Files (Modern supernatural) and others.

Almost none of these games have any splatbooks, supplements, guides, handbooks or scenarios. One book, your imagination and a bunch of people excited to play is all there is and, in most cases, all there ever will be.

One thing I'd note - of all the games I've listed, Burning Wheel is the only one I'd really consider written for 'long-term' play. They tend to be about putting characters in a situation and seeing what happens, not 'exploring a setting'.

So, for example, in Apocalypse World you might run 10-20 sessions and then you will probably have told the story of that set of characters and situations and mayhem. I'm not envisaging my Fate game going more than 15-20. These are not generally games where 'campaigns' last years and years. Burning Wheel can run like that though - not because there's a load of setting splat to use, but because the beliefs, experience, improvement cycle is built to run like that.

Best of luck. Hope you find a game that clicks.

 

[D'karr]

Role playing wise it may not have made any difference but mechanic wise it did.

Since the role playing aspects were the only ones that really mattered, to us, they were the only ones that were relevant.

As an example, we are currently playing through the slavers modules (A1-A4) and the conversion has been extremely simple. At times I'm doing the conversion on the fly for some things without issue. Compared to the amount of "work" it took to convert and run Ravenloft (I6) to 3.0, and later 3.5, the conversion to 4e was delightful. In running these is where you see the difference. 3.0 and 3.5 required constant lookup in other books while running the monsters. In 4e there was very little, or no lookup at all. That let us concentrate on the game and situation at the table instead of having to go back and forth looking up rules. For the role playing aspect that was much better for us.

 

[Ratskinner]

And what if the only answer to your only question is "yes"? I don't suppose I could rely on you to name a few titles that I wouldn't already know about, or tried. Could I?

Have you tried FATE? There will soon be a new "FATE Core" book, which looks very nice and refined.

I'm a FATE fan, so I may be biased, but it meets most of your needs to my eyes. It also has a very active Yahoo! group that can cheerfully help you with anything you might need as far as extending the system. Its very flexible in tone.

If you're really into simple, there's a FATE Accelerated Edition that will come out sometime this year. Characters in that game might fit on a half-sheet of paper.

I haven't played the "generic" version, but I hear good things about Savage Worlds.

 

[Derren]

Switching systems would solve most of your issues.

Except the player part. There is no easy way to solve that.

 

[Jacob Lewis]

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. I'll let you in on a little secret... my favorite game to play right now is Descent: Second Edition. Its not a roleplaying game in the traditional sense. Its a board game, but it has all the trappings with the potential to be supported as one. The mechanics are straightforward and uncomplicated. It supports both long and short-term games. Players gain rewards and build up their characters by making choices. There is a limited degree in character customization, but the potential for expansion is prevalent.

The best part about it for me: I buy one box that has everything I need to run a long campaign, and the ability to devise more. Expansions come out once or twice a year, which is great. It gives me enough time to play out the existing game and ready for more options. Much better than trying to keep up with the monthly turn out of new products and "must-have" releases. There is only so much "game" needed to play, and time to play what you have before the next great feature comes along. But maybe that's just me.

 

[fjw70]

Without doing major changes it was next to impossible to easily port characters from 3.5 to 4 even the game designers admitted that which was why you didn't see the handy conversion guide like you did for 2 to 3. Role playing wise it may not have made any difference but mechanic wise it did. Every PC and NPC had to be rebuilt that is a lot of work.

Take Shadowrun my character started in 1E when 2E came out I had to do a few tweaks the same when 3E came out. When 4E came out it was impossible to just tweak my hermetic mage she was way to powerful for the new edition. To play her I would had to rebuild her from scratch and the new build changed so much of what made the character the character. It wasn't just the rule changes there were a ron of flavor changes as well.

I felt the same way about DnD 4E not only did they change the rules they changed the flavor of the game and that flavor did not fit my world. I have always thought the biggest mistake WOTC did with 4E was slamming the door on 3E they should have tried to support both editions because they appeal to a different style of play.

Just curious. How long do you play the same character?