Races / creatures and flight

[Sarros]

This is an argument a friend and I have been having for a while

Pegasi and Griffons and fly with a rider and with barding as long as it's no heavier then light barding, but what is the situation when it comes to other creatures and races?

Example one, friend has a succubus he has charmed as his pet, he wants to know if the succubus could fly his character to another location. But the rules don't specify how flight limits for creatures such as succubi in particular, or say home-brew races with wings.

What would be the limitations there would be on such situations, if any, that people know of or can think of?

 

[Sunseeker]

I was under the impression that whatever the creature's fly speed was, that was under a "light load". And each tier of load it carried reduced it's fly speed to the next category down.

So, according to the Pathfinder SRD(it's all I can access atm) a Succubus as a fly speed of "Average" and a speed of 50ft. It has a str of 13, and according to the load chart that means a light load is 50lbs or less. Mediums is 51-100, heavy is 101-150. That would mean 2 steps down for your average human, into the fly category of "clumsy".

I don't think a succubus would be very good at carrying anyone any more than a short distance, such as over a canyon or up a high wall.

 

[Sarros]

That was kind of my feeling as well, but they claim that most, if not all, winged beings could take one other being up to their size with them with ease, and at least for pegasi that clearly isn't possible, but I did say i'd look into it for them.

 

[Sunseeker]

That was kind of my feeling as well, but they claim that most, if not all, winged beings could take one other being up to their size with them with ease, and at least for pegasi that clearly isn't possible, but I did say i'd look into it for them.

Generally being able to carry another creature requires either extreme strength, or being one size larger. This applies to land-mounts as well, such as horses, tigers, dinosaurs and so on. And that's usually "one person....and all the junk they're carrying", such as bags, armor, weapons and so on.

I might say you could let your player attempt it, but give the succubus some sort of will-save to break out from under the player's charm. Any animal or person carrying at the maximum of their capacity for an extended period of time is going to get tired and upset very quickly. The rules for magical compulsion generally give favorable circumstance bonuses to will-saves the more extreme a a command is.

So charming a succubus to do you bidding and tempt a criminal into sleeping with her so she can play him up as a filanderer against his wife would be something the Succubus would be willing to do, thus get no extra saves. But charming a succubus into being a glorified mount is likely going to piss her off.

Also...insert all sorts of inappropriate jokes about "riding a succubus" here.

 

[Sarros]

Also...insert all sorts of inappropriate jokes about "riding a succubus" here.

That's actually where I was worried this topic was going to go into. Though it may still now that I more or less have an answer, unless others want to voice in as well.

 

[Sunseeker]

That's actually where I was worried this topic was going to go into. Though it may still now that I more or less have an answer, unless others want to voice in as well.

Well by the rules we have to keep it clean here, but I figured I'd throw an "in before..." there for ya.

 

[Starfox]

To serve as a mount, a creature generally has to be a size category larger than it's rider. A Succubus could carry a character through the air (encumbrance permitting), but cannot generally be ridden. A carried person woul IMO have a much more limited range of action. There are also two other practical issues; the succubus does not have a good shape for carrying a rider (mounts are mostly quadrupeds for a reason). I'd say the rider has to be two size categories smaller to ride a humanoid. And the rider has to stay our of the way of the wings.

Perhaps with some kind of harness, a character could be suspended below a flying succubus, sort of like a piggyback parachute? In the Land Below of TORG there was a tribe of wasp riders who hung suspended under (medium sized) giant wasps like this.

 

[delericho]

Pegasi and Griffons and fly with a rider and with barding as long as it's no heavier then light barding,

This is actually incorrect. Per the SRD: "A creature with a fly speed can move through the air at the indicated speed if carrying no more than a light load. (Note that medium armor does not necessarily constitute a medium load.)"

So, using the creature's Strength score and the Encumbrance table, we can determine the maximum weight that counts as a "light load" for that creature (bear in mind that pegasi, being quadrupeds, have an increased weight allowance). Provided they are under that weight, they can fly - which means that they might be able to carry a rider, wear barding, both, or neither.

but what is the situation when it comes to other creatures and races?

The exact same rules apply. Which means that most (but not all) creatures will be unable to fly while carrying a character of the same size, and may even struggle with those of a smaller size.

 

[Sarros]

Alright, seems to be pretty much unanimous here, though I found the conversation people had on it to be quite interesting with the examples they gave or even 'homebrew' suggestions. I suppose I should ask this as well as this came to my mind and i'm sure this will be asked ( I'm very used to odd questions being asked, but then again don't we all have that one player who has to test and question everything? )

Falling. If a mount suddenly goes over Light load for whatever reason they don't just plummet to the ground I'd assume, one would think their wings would slow their decent, at least with a medium load. Is there any official rules on falling / gliding in those situations where a mount suddenly gets encumbered / weakened?

 

[delericho]

Falling. If a mount suddenly goes over Light load for whatever reason they don't just plummet to the ground I'd assume, one would think their wings would slow their decent, at least with a medium load. Is there any official rules on falling / gliding in those situations where a mount suddenly gets encumbered / weakened?

I don't think so, although maybe there should be. My understanding is that an airborne creature that suddenly loses the ability to fly (with the specific exception of the fly spell), simply falls.

My understanding is that such a creature will fall 150 ft. in the first round, and 200 ft. per round thereafter. If it is able to correct before hitting the ground (by dumping some gear, receiving bull's strength, or whatever) then it can correct the fall. If not, it takes damage normally.

But, as you note, the creature's wings should (you would expect) give it some ability to slow its descent, especially if it's just over the weight limit. Perhaps it should only take half damage? Or convert some fraction of the damage to non-lethal? (But note that this is straying firmly into the territory of house rules. Not necessarily a bad thing, just something that should probably be noted. )