D&D 3E/3.5 Point me towards an alternate Hit Point system for Pathfinder/D&D3.5

[3catcircus]

Aside from the complexity, death spirals can be infuriating for most players. That's reason enough for WotC to shy away.

At least in my experience, games using death spiral mechanics are generally only infuriating for players who haven't really come to terms with the type of game that uses them.

Another type of "death spiral" example would be Call of Cthulhu - every character either ends up dead or insane so why would anyone want to play such a game?

If you are looking for crazy Wuxia style combat or minimal complexity, then hit points are ok. If you want something more simulationist, complex or gritty (especially for modern genre), then a wound system with the possibility of shock, bleeding out or "lights out" one shot-one kill mechanics is a necessity.

 

[darjr]

Another idea. Every con score of damage is a wound. So a con 12 character would get a wound every time they had gotten 12 HP in damage. It would kind of even out the low HP low level folks with the high HP higher level folks, plus higher level folks could put points in con. But what would a wound do?

 

[Enkhidu]

uh what?

This was for his game or own edification. Alternate home rules, that's all. And actually I know players that actually like playing under that kind of in game stress. Each to their own.

My comment was in response to "I'm beginning to see why WotC never messed with the HP system," so that's the context in which it was meant. WotC has actually flirted with different HP systems, but keeps coming back to good ol' hit points because there's a vocal plurality that doesn't like the death spiral effect that wounds come with.

At least in my experience, games using death spiral mechanics are generally only infuriating for players who haven't really come to terms with the type of game that uses them.

Another type of "death spiral" example would be Call of Cthulhu - every character either ends up dead or insane so why would anyone want to play such a game?

If you are looking for crazy Wuxia style combat or minimal complexity, then hit points are ok. If you want something more simulationist, complex or gritty (especially for modern genre), then a wound system with the possibility of shock, bleeding out or "lights out" one shot-one kill mechanics is a necessity.

Oh I absolutely agree, which is why I said what I did - people looking for bog-standard D&D tend to dislike things that skew the default assumptions (which lean more toward minimal complexity and heroic surges than grittier systems/setting).

And since I realize that I just managed to inadvertently thread-crap, I'll bring it back on track...

One of the wound models WotC played with was the (seemingly much reviled) Wound Point / Vitality Point system. It would be relatively straightforward to use that as a baseline and then apply specific wounds (and conditions) when taking wound points.

 

[darjr]

@Enkhidu I do agree that the default should be bog standard HP.

 

[Michael Silverbane]

You might take a look at one of the versions of Ken Hood's Grim and Gritty hit point rules, a thread about one version can be found here.

 

[3catcircus]

Oh I absolutely agree, which is why I said what I did - people looking for bog-standard D&D tend to dislike things that skew the default assumptions (which lean more toward minimal complexity and heroic surges than grittier systems/setting).

And since I realize that I just managed to inadvertently thread-crap, I'll bring it back on track...

One of the wound models WotC played with was the (seemingly much reviled) Wound Point / Vitality Point system. It would be relatively straightforward to use that as a baseline and then apply specific wounds (and conditions) when taking wound points.

No worries - I didn't take it as thread-crapping. I've played Spycraft, which also used VP/WP. I didn't really see any particular value to using VP/WP vs. hp since it was essentially a "lose all your hp - I mean - VP and then go down to 0 in your Con-disguised-as-WP." The only benefit I saw was that crits went directly against WP rather than doing additional damage, which allows for "one shot-one kill" scenarios.

 

[3catcircus]

Oh I absolutely agree, which is why I said what I did - people looking for bog-standard D&D tend to dislike things that skew the default assumptions (which lean more toward minimal complexity and heroic surges than grittier systems/setting).

And since I realize that I just managed to inadvertently thread-crap, I'll bring it back on track...

One of the wound models WotC played with was the (seemingly much reviled) Wound Point / Vitality Point system. It would be relatively straightforward to use that as a baseline and then apply specific wounds (and conditions) when taking wound points.

No worries - I didn't take it as thread-crapping. I've played Spycraft, which also used VP/WP. I didn't really see any particular value to using VP/WP vs. hp since it was essentially a "lose all your hp - I mean - VP and then go down to 0 in your Con-disguised-as-WP." The only benefit I saw was that crits went directly against WP rather than doing additional damage, which allows for "one shot-one kill" scenarios.

 

[doghead]

You might take a look at one of the versions of Ken Hood's Grim and Gritty hit point rules, a thread about one version can be found here.

Seconded.

Ken Hood's alternate combat system is outstanding. It has been well play tested and is relatively simple to implement. The rules also do a much better job of incorporating common narrative elements in combat mechanics: wounds slow the character down, tough and/or armoured combatants can shrug off damage that would slow others down, and big creatures are scary. Despite its name, I also think that it makes lower level characters less fragile.

thotd