D&D 5E (2014) Long Rest is a Problem

[Warbringer]

Then i say houserule!

Oberani out of the gate

 

[Mistwell]

Then i say houserule!

I've outlined the reasons why this is not the best option. I'll repeat them here:

1) Published adventures should be set to a default assumption that can be tweaked in either direction (assuming the party has more hit points, or less hit points). By setting the default at maximum, you can only house-rule in one direction, making it harder to house rule the adventure to adjust to your rule. In addition, as WOTC appears to plan to "stat out" 1e modules for D&D Next, and 1e definitely did not assume PCs were at maximum, they will out-the-gate have a much bigger issue with their existing published adventure support than necessary.

2) Culturally, the assumption that a party is at max hit points every day without fail is a cultural change for the game. Most versions of the game did not do this. In the very least, some limited resource had to be expended to heal to max without fail every day, be it a spell, a healing power, or whatever resource was used. There is no reason for that cultural change in the game, as it decreased the shared experience between unrelated players of the game, and the relatedness to prior editions, with no appreciable benefit.

In sum, it's a heck of a lot easier to set the default assumption to at least POSSIBLE less than max (and houserule up or down from there if needed), than it is to set the assumption at maximum. Setting it at an extreme rather than somewhere between extremes makes for a lot more commonality between players, and for published adventures (both old ones, and future ones).

 

[darjr]

@Djar

Is the issue its too gonzo with full healing?

No, not that.

It leads to 'set' piece encounters and adventures that are to 'tailored' for the party in question.

 

[Warbringer]

No, not that.

It leads to 'set' piece encounters and adventures that are to 'tailored' for the party in question.

Thanks for answering. Couple of things

1) Aren't adventures always tailored around the party? I mean that's the whole "this adventure is for a party of 4-6 characters of level 7-9. Your'e party should include ... "

2) Full healing has nothing to do with "encounter set pieces". In 3e after 3rd I don't think the party ever started a new day on anything but full hit points, they just used the magical healing cattle prod (CLW wands)... Sure, no "immersion breaking of natural healing"... but still that justs a metagame varaiation

 

[darjr]

Thanks for answering. Couple of things

1) Aren't adventures always tailored around the party? I mean that's the whole "this adventure is for a party of 4-6 characters of level 7-9. Your'e party should include ... "

2) Full healing has nothing to do with "encounter set pieces". In 3e after 3rd I don't think the party ever started a new day on anything but full hit points, they just used the magical healing cattle prod (CLW wands)... Sure, no "immersion breaking of natural healing"... but still that justs a metagame varaiation

1) Well, no, especially not in home games that are a sandbox where the PC's could go anywhere and get into who knows what kind of trouble. But even in the past versions of some of those modules there are plenty of times where those adventures had the possibility to present the PC's with VERY unbalanced encounters. Sometimes I see that as a feature. But I guess it's also a matter of degree, some loose tuning is OK.

2) Actually it does. It's how you can ensure that the encounter is tightly tuned for an expected party and power level. Also I think that CLW in 3.5 leads to some of the very issues that full overnight healing does.

But this is all imho.

 

[KidSnide]

1) Aren't adventures always tailored around the party? I mean that's the whole "this adventure is for a party of 4-6 characters of level 7-9. Your'e party should include ... "

2) Full healing has nothing to do with "encounter set pieces". In 3e after 3rd I don't think the party ever started a new day on anything but full hit points, they just used the magical healing cattle prod (CLW wands)... Sure, no "immersion breaking of natural healing"... but still that justs a metagame varaiation

Building on [MENTION=52905]darjr[/MENTION]'s answer...

1) Unbalanced encounters are a key part of many adventures. Strategic games like Night Below and The Red Hand of Doom frequently involve encounters that are designed to be difficult or impossible if the PCs run into them head on. Risking the possibility that the PCs might bite off more than they can chew is a real part of those games... and that tradeoff works better if its possible to hurt the PCs enough that they can't get back to full power the next day. Sure, you can always kill some characters and force the party to expend Restore Life resources, but it's a lot more satisfying if there are more levels of gradation between full power and TPK. Personally, I think it's fun to have wounded PCs who have retreated and are trying to find a safe space to rebuild their power while the bad guys try to hunt them down. That kind of stuff is super tense and exciting -- way better than the PCs knowing that one night's rest will restore them to full strength.

2) Agree that CLW wands are part of the problem. The groups I played with rarely (or never) made use of the magic item creation rules. (It made the characters weaker, but I think it made the game better.) The game is balanced on the assumption that magic (including magical healing) is a limited resource. As soon as you remove that limitation, it really cuts back on a number of interesting strategic and tactical decisions.

-KS

 

[Kinak]

I actually really like the "long rest restores everything" and "short rest lets you use some of the resources from long rest." The real trick, though, is making the "everything" in long rest include hit points, spells, and other limited abilities absolutely equally.

If they're synched up, it's easy to say "long rests are a week in this game" or "long rests take an hour in this game."

If they're out of synch, you end up with situations like 3rd Edition where the resting system favors certain classes over others and healers are absurdly favored because they can trade a fast-replenishing resource for slower ones.

Cheers!
Kinak

 

[darjr]

I actually really like the "long rest restores everything" and "short rest lets you use some of the resources from long rest."

You are far from alone as well. I think the WoTC team have their work cut out for them. I don't think on this front they can make both camps happy. I hope they can.

 

[Sunseeker]

The funny part is, a 2 week long rest takes just as long as an 8 hour long rest.

8 hour rest:
Seriously injured party members recuperate.
Less or uninjured go do something else.

2 week rest:
Seriously injured party members receive medical care and recuperate.
Less injured or uninjured party members do something else.

The only difference is from a story-telling perspective.

8 hours pass, little happens in the real world. 2 weeks pass, a lot happens in the real world.

I find these topics weird because D&D has never simulated serious injures and month-long recoveries. So it's not so much that DDN is not giving you something, but it's more that D&D has never given you this something.

At least not mechanically.

 

[Kinak]

You are far from alone as well. I think the WoTC team have their work cut out for them. I don't think on this front they can make both camps happy. I hope they can.

Yeah, they're in a really hard spot.

The funny part is, I want it all synched up so that I can set long rests to be a week. It makes it easier to press the party onward and makes game time flow at a more reasonable pace when the players are following the plot.

Cheers!
Kinak