Shadow Jump is breaking up friendships

[doghead]

So I'm in a group and one of the players is a Shadowdancer, I've had no problems with this class before. The player used his shadow jump ability but used it wrong. This play swears up and down that since shadows are made of darkness that he should be able to jump through anything that is in darkness. He also believes that the dark half of the earth (night time) is one big shadow, I've tried to explain to him multiple times what causes shadows but he returns to his shadows are darkness theory. The only real problem I have with this is that he believes that if its dark outside that he can just jump anywhere he pleases and thats his only limitation, but he still uses shadows correctly during the day. We have gotten to the point where another player has yelled at him that he is wrong and that he is generalizing things to make his point work in his favor. So I've come to you fine people to help settle this little argument before this player breaks up this group any further.

In a way he is right, night is just a big shadow. But the whole idea trying to use logic to explain magic is a bit pointless. For example, on bright moonlit nights, there are quite distinct shadows. How would this tie in? Does the existence of 'shadows at night' negate the ability to jump anywhere?

As it has been pointed out, its not a particularly powerful ability, so long as he is not trying to argue he can jump any distance within a single shadow. I would be inclined to allow it for this reason, and because I generally try to say yes (or roll the dice).

More problematic is a player trying to impose his interpretation of a rule on the game regardless of others. So I think that you need to sit down with the players, give each of them a chance to say what they think. Then you make a decision about how its going to be in your game.

thotd

 

[SirAlexanderCourt]

The shadow jump ability of the shadowdancer
does not seem to be particularly overpowered.

Now if the ability was that you can jump unlimited
amounts of times for a distance equivalent to a
dimension door spell, it might be more powered.

This is an interesting rules question, and there
are merits to both sides and arguments.

I would say that night without any illumination
could be shadow, but even at night, there are
still various forms of illumination like the moon
for example.

But the ability in any case is not particularly
overpowered due to it's limitations so letting
the player enjoy it is not particularly unbalancing.

 

[Grogg of the North]

So we've all seen the arguements for and against the use of jumping at night, etc. Now how do we help the OP reconcile this within his group? It sounds like there are two people that are drastically opposed on this.

 

[MarkB]

So we've all seen the arguements for and against the use of jumping at night, etc. Now how do we help the OP reconcile this within his group? It sounds like there are two people that are drastically opposed on this.

If the player's view is that he can use Shadow Jump in any unlit area at night, within its distance levels: Cave in, let him do it. As lots of people have pointed out, it's not that powerful.

If the player's view is that he can Shadow Jump to anywhere else on the planet's night-side: Point out the unequivocal distance limits in the ability's description, and disallow it - it's way too powerful, and unsupported by the rules.

While I think that the player is technically correct about night being one big shadow, I don't think it's an interpretation that fits comfortably within the spirit of most D&D settings. I think the definition of "shadow" that ought to be used is that it's an area that's darker than the prevailing light conditions, because something's blocking that prevailing light to cast it. Complete, untextured darkness is not shadow, because there can be no shadow without light.

 

[N'raac]

So we've all seen the arguements for and against the use of jumping at night, etc. Now how do we help the OP reconcile this within his group? It sounds like there are two people that are drastically opposed on this.

I'd like to know why they are so opposed. Are they OK with this player deciding how thir characters' abilities work?

I think it's important what the GM rules, and then I think there needs to be a discussion of GM rulings - at present, it seems the shadowdancer player is unwilling to accept the ruling already made against him - will the other players oppose a ruling in his favour, or accept it? More important, does changing the ruling now suggest that arguing with the GM will get similar results in the future?

 

[n00bdragon]

If the player's view is that he can use Shadow Jump in any unlit area at night, within its distance levels: Cave in, let him do it. As lots of people have pointed out, it's not that powerful.

If the player's view is that he can Shadow Jump to anywhere else on the planet's night-side: Point out the unequivocal distance limits in the ability's description, and disallow it - it's way too powerful, and unsupported by the rules.

While I think that the player is technically correct about night being one big shadow, I don't think it's an interpretation that fits comfortably within the spirit of most D&D settings. I think the definition of "shadow" that ought to be used is that it's an area that's darker than the prevailing light conditions, because something's blocking that prevailing light to cast it. Complete, untextured darkness is not shadow, because there can be no shadow without light.

Except this is incorrect. There can only be shadow without light. Shadow is the absence of light. As has been pointed out night time is one giant shadow because the Earth is blocking the sun. This doesn't preclude there from being additional light sources which can also be blocked. Furthermore, the implications of such a ruling are bad for the game in two ways:
1. The requirement takes away a fun and harmless ability from the player and puts it squarely under DM control, particularly at night time which ironically should be when the shadowdancer's player agency is at its highest.
2. It requires the very sorts of pedantry and rules lawyering that the OP claims to dislike. Technically any light source is sufficient to create a shadow of some magnitude. Can a shadowdancer then hold his hand towards the nearest light source and teleport in the shadow it makes on his face? Can he teleport in the shadow of the red light from a skeleton's eyes? How deep does the shadow need to be before it's "teleportable"?

 

[MarkB]

Except this is incorrect. There can only be shadow without light. Shadow is the absence of light.

Darkness is the absence of light. A shadow is where light borders upon darkness. It's the contrast that makes it magical.

 

[Abraxas]

A shadow is an area where direct light from a light source cannot reach due to obstruction by an object. It occupies all of the space behind an opaque object with light in front of it. So the shadowdancer's player is pretty much correct. You could be picky and say it's one contiguous shadow so he can't jump between shadows, but really that's most likely not true either, with moonlight, starlight, distant torches, etc creating individual shadows. As others have said, the power isn't overpowered and has specific limits on distance. I'm curious why the other player's are so opposed to the SD's player's interpretation.

 

[doghead]

I'm curious why the other player's are so opposed to the SD's player's interpretation.

I am as well. But unless the OP returns, it shall remain a mystery.

thotd

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Place a big, 20-foot-wide sphere on the ground at, say, 9am in sunlight in your game-world. Is the unlit side of that sphere in shadow?

If so, then technically he's correct - he's simply scaled that scene up.

I disagree. A shadow must be cast on something. The night side of the world is the back of the object casting the shadow, it's not in shadow itself.

The only nighttime shadow you might get is a lunar eclipse.