D&D 5E Final playtest packet due in mid September.

[JeffB]

I have not kept up with all the convos regarding Monsters/stats, and have not looked much at the last few packets, but now that I looked at the latest playtest Bestiary, someone PLEASE tell me they are using placeholder combat attacks and abilities. As a DM that is a whole lotta boring, IMO, and big step back from 4e. The few 13th age critters I have seen are far more interesting than NEXT monsters without the tactical/grid focus that sometimes was overkill in 4e. I am all for fast at the table, but when a Vrock is far more interesting than a Balor, something is wrong.

What gives?

 

[Ahnehnois]

My D&D game is more house rules than rules, but we aren't the "average" gamer for whom marketing and design is focused on.

Really? I've created entire subsystems, rewritten all the classes, changed basic rules, and I'm less into houserules than most of the other independent DMs I've had (i.e. people that I did not teach how to play).

To my way of thinking, there's two styles of DMing. In one, the DM plops down a massive binder of houserules as an introduction. In the other, the DM says "rules are for players, I don't care about them" and plays fast and loose and liberally interprets or ignores basic aspects of the rules. In both cases, the books themselves are a starting point only.

Are you suggesting that the "average" gamer essentially uses the rules as written without a second thought? I find that unlikely. I certainly hope that isn't the case. This hobby is about individuals creating their own experience.

 

[Warbringer]

Really? I've created entire subsystems, rewritten all the classes, changed basic rules, and I'm less into houserules than most of the other independent DMs I've had (i.e. people that I did not teach how to play).

To my way of thinking, there's two styles of DMing. In one, the DM plops down a massive binder of houserules as an introduction. In the other, the DM says "rules are for players, I don't care about them" and plays fast and loose and liberally interprets or ignores basic aspects of the rules. In both cases, the books themselves are a starting point only.

Are you suggesting that the "average" gamer essentially uses the rules as written without a second thought? I find that unlikely. I certainly hope that isn't the case. This hobby is about individuals creating their own experience.

Yes... Average players play the game their DM presents to them , and most DMs do little than tweak... And to me any rewrites beyond raw is a house rule, and I've rewritten from ground up to be software modules ( yeah, geek)

But, if you rather think your an average player, have at it.

 

[Ahnehnois]

Average players play the game their DM presents to them , and most DMs do little than tweak...

I find both of those statements incomprehensible. Average players try to bring in some custom class from a weird source or that they made up, and then essentially litigate the rules during play and want everything changed. Average DMs are DMs precisely because they're into the game enough to rewrite it. (It has been my observation that many people make alterations to the rules and don't consider themselves to have done such).

 

[Hussar]

I find both of those statements incomprehensible. Average players try to bring in some custom class from a weird source or that they made up, and then essentially litigate the rules during play and want everything changed. Average DMs are DMs precisely because they're into the game enough to rewrite it. (It has been my observation that many people make alterations to the rules and don't consider themselves to have done such).

I suggest that you start playing with a lot more strangers before making sweeping statements like that. I haven't seen a player bring a completely custom class to the table since I started playing 3e and even then, rarely saw it in 2e. I have zero interest in rewriting games. None whatsoever. I want to run games, not play amateur game designer.

Heck, that's primarily the reason I abandoned AD&D for 3e. I was so sick of having to constantly police the rules.

I have a group that now consists of seven experienced DM's, most with decades of game experience. Yet, our 4e game has zero house rules outside of what is needed by the setting (it's a Dark Sun game). Our 3e games had virtually zero house rules.

I don't think it's terribly unusual for people to play the game largely as written.

 

[Weather Report]

I don't think it's terribly unusual for people to play the game largely as written.

Neither do I, any variations/house-rules have never been that common in any game I have played in 26 years (though, I have absolutely no problem with them, and love me some variants, etc).

 

[adamc]

This shouldn't be a huge problem, insofar as they know who is looking at the packet and not taking the survey. Which they do know, since one has to login to download the packets.

Pollsters know whom they have called and who has or has not answered their questions, but non-response bias is still a problem.

 

[Iosue]

Pollsters know whom they have called and who has or has not answered their questions, but non-response bias is still a problem.

If WotC's only source of information was public playtest surveys, I'd be worried. But they also glean info from the various boards, including EN World, as well as from a large internal playtest with people who aren't going to quit.

 

[dd.stevenson]

Pollsters know whom they have called and who has or has not answered their questions, but non-response bias is still a problem.

Sure, it's a thing. But Wizards is in as much a position to correct for it as any pollster.

 

[Iosue]

I suggest that you start playing with a lot more strangers before making sweeping statements like that. I haven't seen a player bring a completely custom class to the table since I started playing 3e and even then, rarely saw it in 2e. I have zero interest in rewriting games. None whatsoever. I want to run games, not play amateur game designer.

Heck, that's primarily the reason I abandoned AD&D for 3e. I was so sick of having to constantly police the rules.

I have a group that now consists of seven experienced DM's, most with decades of game experience. Yet, our 4e game has zero house rules outside of what is needed by the setting (it's a Dark Sun game). Our 3e games had virtually zero house rules.

I don't think it's terribly unusual for people to play the game largely as written.

I agree. I've played multiple editions with various groups, and have never seen what Ahnehnois describes as "average".