D&D 5E D&D Next playtest post mortem by Mike Mearls and Rodney Thompson. From seven years ago.

[FitzTheRuke]

I've been playing the new Spelljammer with my F2F group for five sessions now. We've spent the whole time in WildSPACE, flying around in the void. We haven't hit the Astral Sea yet, which is more the fantasy equivalent of sci-fi "warp speed" (except that you have to fly to the extent of your WildSPACE System (the "shores" of the Astral Sea) first before sailing off into it to get to another WildSPACE System).

Heck, if it really matters to your DM, they could put a crystal barrier there!

 

[Haplo781]

No of course not. I am hardly going to give WotC money for doing something I disapprove of, am I? Nonetheless I know what is in it.


You do not get to tell anyone else what they are allowed to find meaningful.


Yes, whatever could I possibly be talking about. Oh look, it's right there in almost your very next sentence (bolding mine, italics yours):



I'm fine with anyone who wants to (of any age) playing this. I am also fine with anyone who wants to (of any age) playing Spelljammer as published in the 90s. I just do not understand why they needed to use the name of the latter for the former. But by all means, impugn my character because I do not happen to like WotC's latest shiny!

Please explain to me how the Phlogiston is "space" in any meaningful way that doesn't also apply to the Astral Sea.

Explain it like I'm five.

 

[Haplo781]

Believing a vegan diet would cure his cancer? There are good reasons to adopt or maintain a vegan diet; that generally isn't one of them. (Full disclosure: I used to be vegan, and I also used to work for Steve Jobs. Coincidence?)

In any case, hit points ≠ hands.

Even worse, it was a fruitarian diet. Which is literally the worst diet for pancreatic cancer.

 

[darjr]

@Haplo781 my comment was about Dragon Magazine. WotC did say they had plans. No idea what though.

 

[bert1001 fka bert1000]

correct, and if that was the only justicication I put forward you would have a point. BUT since I have twice in this thread and at least a dozen times this year on enworld wrote flavor text for how every stat (I do still fall down on CON though) can be justified your argument is either 1) Not paying attention or 2) activly not addressing the conversation.

Okay so lets go back to
"I hit hard and know how to leverage my power" Str
"I maneuver quickly and agily" Dex
- Skip con others have really good ones but I struggle with it
"I have trained in knowing fighting styles as long as the wizard has to use magic, I know every form" Int
"I am perseptive and can find the right place to put my blows, and yes even rocks have vunerable spots" Wis
"I flourish and distract and through force of my overwhelming personality guide my strike" Cha

the fact that all 6 attacks look diffrent is MORE flavorful (IMO)

Con -- I wear you down, counting on my endurance to outlast you. Blow after blow unrelenting until it gets through or you loose concentration for one second.

Not the hardest hitter but can keep at you.

I do agree though -- making these tied to ability scores is like making schools of magic tied to ability scores. Like your DCs and even ability to take X level spells are tied to high scores.

 

[Haplo781]

@Haplo781 my comment was about Dragon Magazine. WotC did say they had plans. No idea what though.

Yeah I quoted you by accident.

 

[glass]

It is past time for you to consider the possibility that folks have honest opinions about the material, rather than a "party line".

I am going to quote myself here.

I'm fine with anyone who wants to (of any age) playing this. I am also fine with anyone who wants to (of any age) playing Spelljammer as published in the 90s. I just do not understand why they needed to use the name of the latter for the former

People playing the game, and enjoying it, I have no issues with. Even if it is things I would not prefer myself. But if their opinion that I should not prefer what I prefer, then I do not care how "honestly" they came by it.

The "party line" comment was more aimed at the notion that I am not allowed to be disappointed with the new Spelljammer because I have not bought it. Of course I haven't bought it! I do not go out and buy products I know are not what I want.

So, let us try this - what is more meaningful to the setting: The presence of crystal spheres and phlogiston, or the types of stories you get from playing

I do not believe they are easily separable. One informs the other.

Clipping the sentence in order to remove additional context is very poor form. You left out the references to stars, the heavens, Widspace, a silvery void, hopping between worlds. Sounds pretty darn space-y to me.

I clipped the bits that were not relevant to my point. Yes, wildspace is pretty spacey, but to actually go anywhere you have to leave wildspace and, crucially, travel to another plane. Anyway, given the size of dogpile trying to bludgeon me into submission, it is simply not practical to post every post in its entirety even if I wanted to.

Plus which, giving me stick for only only quoting the relevant portions of posts and then, in the very next post, clipping my post down to literally two words is, as you put it, "poor form".

No, the only inaccurate bit I see in this thread is your claim that because they refer to the Astral Plane, it means it has nothing to do with space, despite all of the other things they also refer to which make it very clear it is to do with space.

Lucky I did not claim that, then. I claimed, accurately, that space travel has been replaced by astral travel as the main way of getting to far-off places. EDIT: Admittedly in a slightly hyperbolic way, initially.

Please explain to me how the Phlogiston is "space" in any meaningful way that doesn't also apply to the Astral Sea.

The phlogiston is not another plane. You may not find that "meaningful", but I do (to the extent that anything about an elfgame is meaningful - we are not curing cancer here). And see my earlier comment to Umbran about other people policing what I am allowed to find meaningful.

---

Please, please stop trying to convince me that I am wrong to be disappointed in the new "Spelljammer". To reiterate, if you like it, great! Go have fun with it! But stop telling me that I am wrong to be disappointed - the new Spelljammer is different from the old Spelljammer in a pretty fundamental way, and I preferred the original version. My preferences are my preferences, and nether logical argument nor bullying are going to change them. De gustibus non est disputandum.

Please. No more.

 

[darjr]

never mind. Not worth it.

 

[Fifth Element]

I clipped the bits that were not relevant to my point. Yes, wildspace is pretty spacey, but to actually go anywhere you have to leave wildspace and, crucially, travel to another plane. Anyway, given the size of dogpile trying to bludgeon me into submission, it is simply not practical to post every post in its entirety even if I wanted to.

You made a claim that they left out the "in space" bit, so references to space things are clearly relevant, but you left them out. That's the difference - choosing to respond to only one particular thing someone says is not at all equivalent to cutting out context from a quote when that context argues against the point you're attempting to make.

Lucky I did not claim that, then. I claimed, accurately, that space travel has been replaced by astral travel as the main way of getting to far-off places.

That's a distinction without a difference. The "Astral Plane" now essentially means "space." Space is effectively a different plane than Earth, after all. The environment is entirely different, one cannot survive there without special preparations being made, etc. etc. Heck, it's the ASTRAL plane even. Astral refers to stars. Not exactly a stretch.

You can choose to not like that change, but the way you have described it as removing space from the setting is inaccurate.

Please, please stop trying to convince me that I am wrong to be disappointed in the new "Spelljammer". To reiterate, if you like it, great! Go have fun with it! But stop telling me that I am wrong to be disappointed

Here you manage to misrepresent both what you said and what other people said. You did not merely say you were disappointed in the new Spelljammer. (No quotes, of course, since WotC owns that IP and can do whatever they please with it). You provided reasons, on a discussion forum, some of which are misrepresentations of it. So the fact that people are discussing your claims, here on a discussion forum, in order to explain whey they are misrepresentations, should be entirely expected. You're not a victim here. You made some claims that are invalid, and people have explained why.

The bolded part above is a pretty vile misrepresentation of what people have been saying in response to your claims.

nor bullying

And this is also a pretty vile misrepresentation of what people have been saying.

 

[Umbran]

Mod Note:
Folks, the poster has said "Please. No more".

With this, we should drop it. Everyone. Just let it go now. So long as they leave it be, everyone should leave it be. Understood? If not, please take it to PM with the moderator of your choice.