Halloween costumes -- where is the taste line drawn?

[Morrus]

A couple years ago, one of the British princes dressed in a Nazi uniform for a costume party. There was a lot of uproar about it. The problem struck me as odd. He could have dressed as the devil, an axe murderer, a zombie, a medieval executioner, and no one would have had a problem. But somehow Nazi is over the line?

That's the tabloid press for you. Famous person does something that the press figures out can be spun into an indignant news story. Profit.

 

[gamerprinter]

Do what, now? The point of Halloween originally is a religious day to remember the dead, and to remember saints (All Hallow's Day is also known as All Saints Day in some religious circles). It has nothing to do with defying politics.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but yes what you say applies to All Saints Day, but I'm talking of All Saints Day Eve, which is supposed to have it's own significance, if allowing for Celtic tradition to mix with the Catholic holiday - going back to the origins of marrying pagan holidays to Christian ones in order to more easily convert the pagans to Christianity. But I am not a religious historian of any kind, but my exposure has always alluded to this being truthful.

 

[Janx]

Perhaps I'm wrong, but yes what you say applies to All Saints Day, but I'm talking of All Saints Day Eve, which is supposed to have it's own significance, if allowing for Celtic tradition to mix with the Catholic holiday - going back to the origins of marrying pagan holidays to Christian ones in order to more easily convert the pagans to Christianity. But I am not a religious historian of any kind, but my exposure has always alluded to this being truthful.

Originally, Halloween, as practiced by pagans was called Samhain (pronounced sow-when, probably a celtic or gaelic word). One aspect of the holiday (like Thanksgiving) is as a Fall Festival, celebrating the bounty of the harvest, etc.

When Christianity was spread, as GP indicates, they'd merge/replace the old holidays with Christian versions. Easter is like that, as it was formerly called Ostara and was a fertility holiday (hence the bunnies).

And as with most spiritual things, there was meaning associated to the opposite/reverse. So if there's All Hallows Day, there is All Hallows Eve (the day before).

Per the History Channel, Halloween varied in its significance to various cultures. It wasn't until the 20th century when the concept of dressing in costumes and going trick or treating evolved. There was no religious association with the trick or treating idea, it was just a party/activity concept that evolved.

Ironically enough, knowing this history (having seen the Hitler Channel, knowing pagans, etc), there have been some religious groups in America who thought Trick or Treating was the pagan activity and "wrong" So they've started having Fall Festivals on their church grounds for Halloween events. This is ironic, because Fall Festival is in fact the original purpose of Samhain in early pagan culture. So they are in fact shunning the very American non-pagan practice and adopting the pagan practice under the objective of avoiding a pagan practice.

Note, this is only intended as information and not a discussion on the merits of any given religion. I cite the anti-halloween example to reflect how a few groups' ignorance about the holiday has unwittingly driven them back to the practice they allegedly sought to avoid under their declared reasoning for doing so. There is nothing wrong with their chosen way to celebrate the holiday, but doing so under mistaken understanding of history is a darn shame.

 

[Janx]

People need to understand that there is no right to not be offended.

I just wish people would stop abusing their Right to Be Offended.

Some dude dressing up as a Nazi for Halloween is not a thing worth getting upset about.

Some dudes dressing up as Nazis and burning crosses on lawns, dragging men down the street with their pickup, stopping shoppers who buy expensive things at a shop because their ethnic group doesn't usually have that kind of money are things we should rightly be upset about and seek to change.

 

[gamerprinter]

Actually Samhain is the end of the sheep herding season when the sheep are brought to winter grounds. Lughnasadh, on August 1st is the Celtic Harvest festival, not Samhain.

<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: dbtech_usertag_mention -->@Janx<!-- END TEMPLATE: dbtech_usertag_mention --> - Christmas is like that too. Some evidence suggests Jesus was born in September, but his birthday was moved to accomodate and associate with the Winter Solstice festival in Germany to Christianize that holiday (as well as merge with Roman gift giving traditions of the same season, that was also pagan).

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Some dude dressing up as a Nazi for Halloween is not a thing worth getting upset about.

Context matters, though.

I don't have a problem with dressing like a Nazi as a costume- if I did it, it would be HILARIOUS since I'm a black guy of Jewish (and other minority) descent- but the person in question was a prince of England. That war was only a generation ago, and it was on their doorstep. While I still wouldn't have a personal problem with it if I were in his circle of friends, I can easily see how it might not play well with his countrymen.

Can you imagine the uproar if Rick Perry, governor of Texas, went to a costume ball dressed as a Confederate general or John Wilkes Booth?

 

[Zombie_Babies]

I can imagine the uproar, yes. However, that does not mean that said uproar would be justified. People - even (mayhap especially) when acting in unison - can be incredibly stupid.

 

[Kramodlog]

I just wish people would stop abusing their Right to Be Offended.

Some dude dressing up as a Nazi for Halloween is not a thing worth getting upset about.

Some dudes dressing up as Nazis and burning crosses on lawns, dragging men down the street with their pickup, stopping shoppers who buy expensive things at a shop because their ethnic group doesn't usually have that kind of money are things we should rightly be upset about and seek to change.

I know. Pick ups are terrible vehicules, consumes lots of oil and pollutes like hell. Most people do not even transport stuff in them!

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I can imagine the uproar, yes. However, that does not mean that said uproar would be justified. People - even (mayhap especially) when acting in unison - can be incredibly stupid.

Any political position carries with it responsibilities both actual and symbolic, and "Prince of England" carries a lot more symbolic duty than most other political positions. Dressing up in the uniform of an enemy- especially one as recent and reviled as the Nazis- without clearly and unequivocally lampooning it is never going to be OK.

At best, Harry achieved "ironic". Not good enough.

 

[Zombie_Babies]

Any political position carries with it responsibilities both actual and symbolic, and "Prince of England" carries a lot more symbolic duty than most other political positions. Dressing up in the uniform of an enemy- especially one as recent and reviled as the Nazis- without clearly and unequivocally lampooning it is never going to be OK.

At best, Harry achieved "ironic". Not good enough.

Wrong. Sometimes a costume is just a costume and the good prince wasn't even alive when that uniform meant anything more than snazzy clothes. For god's sake, man, Neville Chamberlain took less grief than you're giving the prince and he did a damned sight more than wear a costume.