OSR A Modern D&D Hybrid? OSR+ 3.X

[Zardnaar]

One of the ideas kicking around in the back of my head has been making a homebrew D&D system that is basically a hybrid of AD&D/BECMI and 3.x. This is because I have not been very impressed with D&DN as it is still busy slaughtering sacred cows and throwing out things like vancian casting I had no real issue with in the 1st place. Earlier in the year I got as far as play testing a homebrew version of D&D that my players actually liked but it was a lot of work. I'm kind of after something resembling the OSR playerstyle but with modern mechanics like ascending ACs and some changes 3rd ed made such as cleric spontaneous healing, Rogue sneak attack etc while keeping the sacred cows around.

Feats and skills would be recycled but the skill system would be more basic (DC 25 or so tops), and feats would not have feat trees or to many bonuses to hit and damage. There would be no feats like natural spell. The broken 3.5 classes would resemble 2nd ed classes more so no animal companions for the Druid, metamagic will be gone etc. Spell DCs would be lower and capped at DC 20, ability scores will be capped at DC 20 and something like 8,10,11,12,13,14 would be the default stat array (monsters are weaker more like 2nd ed than 3rd ed ones). Magic items will be going back to AD&D default so no buying XYZ swords and spells like greater magic weapon will be gone as well.

So what ideas would you guys have to tone down the craziness of 3.x and the numbers bloat but still making a D&D game that has the sacred cows etc. It can be about as complicated as early 3.0 or 2nd ed and some of the class books. Things do not have to be perfectly balanced (I do not care if a level 19 wizard is uber) but martial types have to be better than what they were in 3.x. Something like a 2nd ed fighter+ feats is what I am aiming for so fighters have better saves and weapon specialization. Scaling feats are fine. Any ideas/brainstorm etc are welcome.

 

[MoonSong]

Sounds familiar to me for some reason. I've been working on something similar for a while (my idea was something around being "old school play and feel, new school flavor and crunch"). It goes only up to name level (campaigns don't really last that long), tried to get rid of as many fiddly mechanics as possible, made the fighter the top of combat and saves progression, restricted saves, made Mages progression tougher and dangerous again, established priests as the basis and cleric as a martial variant while introducing a few idiosyncratic classes (charmer, empath, lyrist), made rangers more martial oriented and they now only gain spells until late levels, restricted druids to animals only, made paladins truly unique as opposed to crusaders (clericky champions of specific gods) and warpriests (war cleric-fighter multiclass), also took measures to reduce hit point inflation and halved skill rank inflation.


So far a name level fighter can slaughter about fifty or so enemies on a single round. (I don't know but if I manage to make fighters broken I'll consider it a success) But yes it is a lot of work. I'm still thorn between keeping a very simplified approach to scores I had at the beginning or keep more traditional scores to power up an engine that basically allows not only called shots, but also subtle things like holding a dagger to someones thorat, quick and intuitive feints and stuff.

 

[Zardnaar]

I'm just using the normal d20 abilit scores atm. I based mine to heavily on Pathfinder, need to use 2nd ed as a baseline, flip numbers around and add feats or talents.

 

[fjw70]

I would probably just use the PH1 only, use 13A-like backgrounds (+1/2 level bonus) instead of skills, and Fo feats only use the fighter bonus feats. I would also build some feats into the core rules for anyone to use (such as weapon finesse).

 

[darjr]

Didn't Chris Perkins create a 'modern version' of AD&D 1?

http://www.adnd3egame.com/cnc.htm#rulesckmaterials

Oh, except it isn't the WotC Chris Perkins. He has an account here I think.

 

[Zardnaar]

Didn't Chris Perkins create a 'modern version' of AD&D 1?

http://www.adnd3egame.com/cnc.htm#rulesckmaterials

Oh, except it isn't the WotC Chris Perkins. He has an account here I think.

I'm aiming more towards the 3.0 side of things in terms of classes just using AD&D here and there or hybriding AD&D/3rd ed classes. I might use priest spheres for example but let them spontaneously cast. An example of an NPC.

AC 19
Saves Fort +11 Ref +12 Will +13
Attacks: By weapon
Size Medium Movement 30'
Abilities Str10 Con 14 Dex 16 Int 18 Wis 12 Cha 13
Weapon Prof Dagger,Staff
Talents/Feats ArdentCaster, Attribute Training (con), Item Lore, Light Armor Training
Spell Like Abilities: DancingLights, Darkness, Detect Magic, Faerie Fire, Levitate, KnowAlignment,
Spell Resistance 14(1d20 needs to beat 14)
Spells 7/6/4/2/1,Charm Person, Magic Missile X3, Detect magic, Read Magic, Burning hands, color spray, Invisibility X2, Blur, flaming sphere,fog cloud,rope trick, dispel magic, fireball, lightning bolt, fly, Nyars explosive missiles, dimension door, ironguard
Equipment +4 leather armor, Drow wand of lightning bolt (6d6+6, 10 charges), 2traveling spell books, ring of protection +3, drow cloak, drow boots,

 

[GMMichael]

I'm no expert on BECMI, but if you want to tone down 3E, you could try something like this:

- Eliminate all feats.
- Allow skill checks to emulate feats.
- Cap skill points at equal-to-level. (Instead of level+3)
- Use two kinds of skill check-
--Relative: success is judged by how high player rolls on a d20.
--Absolute: success is judged by a d20 result plus modifiers, on a scale of 10=easy to 30=godlike.

Oh yeah, and no prestige classes.

 

[cimbrog]

This is pretty relevant to something I just said in the "Is BECMI the best edition mechanically" thread, which is that BECMI + supplements is very much a spiritual successor to 3e.

The best thing you could bring over from BECMI are the weapon mastery rules. The various weapon mastery charts may need to be cleaned up but they give fighters a lot more bite (and fill the role of a lot of feats).

The original skill rules for Next had a lot in common with BECMI's skill system and I liked it a lot: You use ability scores for skill-type stuff and having a skill just increases your chances. Skill DCs are mostly flat. It allows for customization without insane point distribution drudgery and also allows players to get involved instead of being restricted to what's written on their character sheet.

 

[Zardnaar]

I'm no expert on BECMI, but if you want to tone down 3E, you could try something like this:

- Eliminate all feats.
- Allow skill checks to emulate feats.
- Cap skill points at equal-to-level. (Instead of level+3)
- Use two kinds of skill check-
--Relative: success is judged by how high player rolls on a d20.
--Absolute: success is judged by a d20 result plus modifiers, on a scale of 10=easy to 30=godlike.

Oh yeah, and no prestige classes.

My players like feats so kinda stuck with them. I am rewriting the 3.5 ones though and eliminating most accuracy buff ones and toning down most of the damage dealing feats. ATM my skills are half level +3 DC 5-25 with DC 30 being heroic.

 

[Zardnaar]

Here is my fighter to test out. Kind of based on the 3.5 one but I am rewriting the feats etc. Extra attacks are tied to BAB and you get an extra one at no penalty at BAB +6, +11 and +16.

Fighter
Hit Dice: d10
Skills: 4
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A fighter is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with all armor (heavy, light, and medium) and shields (including tower shields).

Level	XP	BAB	Fort	Ref	Will	Special
1		+1	+5	+5	+4	Bonus Feat
2	2000	+2	+6	+5	+4	Bonus Feat, Cleave 1/Round
3	4000	+3	+6	+6	+5	Weapon Specialization
4	8000	+4	+7	+6	+5	Bonus Feat
5	16000	+5	+7	+7	+6	Cleave 2/Round
6	32000	+6	+8	+7	+7	Bonus Feat
7	64000	+7	+8	+8	+7	Weapon Master
8	120000	+8	+9	+8	+8	Bonus Feat
9	240000	+9	+9	+9	+8	Cleave 3/Round
10	360000	+10	+10	+9	+9	Bonus Feat
11	480000	+11	+10	+10	+10	Weapon Highmaster
12	600000	+12	+11	+10	+10	Bonus Feat
13	720000	+13	+11	+11	+11	Cleave 4/Round
14	840000	+14	+12	+11	+11	Bonus Feat
15	960000	+15	+13	+12	+12	Weapon Grandmaster
16	1080000	+16	+13	+12	+13	Bonus Feat
17	1200000	+17	+14	+13	+13	Cleave 5/round
18	1320000	+18	+14	+13	+14	Bonus Feat
19	1440000	+19	+14	+14	+14	Avatar of War
20	1560000	+20	+15	+14	+14	Bonus Feat

Bonus Feat: The fighter gains a bonus martial feat.
Cleave: The fighter may cleave once per round gaining an extra attack when an enemy is reduced to 0 hit points. This ability increase to 2/round at level 5, 3/round at level 10, 4/round at level 14 and 5 times per round at level 18. This ability stacks with the cleave feat.
Weapon Specialization: The fighter gains a +1 bonus to hit and a +2 bonus on damage with any weapons he wields.
Weapon Master: The fighters weapon specialization bonus increases to +2 to hit and +3 damage
Weapon Highmaster: The fighters weapon specialization bonus increases to +3 to hit, +3 damage and the weapon dice increases by one step eg 1d8 becomes 1d10. 2D6 and 1d12 become 2d8.
Weapon Grandmaster: The fighter gains an extra attack per round with any weapon they use.
Avatar of War: The fighter gains advantage on all attack rolls and saving throws.