D&D 5E Should Next have been something completely new and made from scratch?

[Morrus]

Because I'm not the only who isn't liking Next at the moment.

Of course you aren't. It would break all laws of plausibility and probability if you were. It'd be downright bizarre, and the first time in history any such thing has ever happened.

They could design it exactly to your specifications, and magically read your innermost thoughts and desires to create a game tailored so perfectly to you that you become its loudest pundit and shout your joy from the rooftops.

But I wouldn't be the only one who wouldn't like Next then.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

Of course you aren't. It would break all laws of plausibility and probability if you were. It'd be downright bizarre, and the first time in history any such thing has ever happened.

They could design it exactly to your specifications, and magically read your innermost thoughts and desires to create a game tailored so perfectly to you that you become its loudest pundit and shout your joy from the rooftops.

But I wouldn't be the only one who wouldn't like Next then.

The point is, they are trying to lure players like me, who really enjoy 2nd and 3rd edition but hated 4th edition, into playing a game that contains elements of 4th edition in it. It's those elements that drove me away from 4th edition so why would I want to play in a game that has them? Now if I could swap them all out, like what was proposed in the beginning, then I would be cool with it, but we haven't received what we were promised.

 

[wedgeski]

4E was a bold attempt to take the rules in a new direction. I have immense respect for the team that rolled those dice, and I happen to have really enjoyed 4E, but it had major repurcussions for the game (good or bad, depending on your preferences).

That's what you're saying you'd like them to do this time around as well. We know, from your posts here and your regular posts on the 4E boards when they were more active, that you despised 4E. So, is the implication that you'd prefer to either love or hate the new rules, rather than be only partially satisfied?

If so, I can get behind that as an opinion. But, you also need to be able to credit the designers with taking a risk, and to my knowledge I've never seen you do that with the 4E crew.

 

[Morrus]

The point is, they are trying to lure players like me, who really enjoy 2nd and 3rd edition but hated 4th edition, into playing a game that contains elements of 4th edition in it. It's those elements that drove me away from 4th edition so why would I want to play in a game that has them? Now if I could swap them all out, like what was proposed in the beginning, then I would be cool with it, but we haven't received what we were promised.

That's an entirely different subject to Next being something completely new and made from scratch, though.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

4E was a bold attempt to take the rules in a new direction. I have immense respect for the team that rolled those dice, and I happen to have really enjoyed 4E, but it had major repurcussions for the game (good or bad, depending on your preferences).

That's what you're saying you'd like them to do this time around as well. We know, from your posts here and your regular posts on the 4E boards when they were more active, that you despised 4E. So, is the implication that you'd prefer to either love or hate the new rules, rather than be only partially satisfied?

If so, I can get behind that as an opinion. But, you also need to be able to credit the designers with taking a risk, and to my knowledge I've never seen you do that with the 4E crew.

Depends on what you change the game into. It wasn't that I despised the change from 3rd to 4th, I just despised what the game changed in to and I'm not doubting I am alone in that feeling.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

That's an entirely different subject to Next being something completely new and made from scratch, though.

Not really.

Since they are going to try and add elements from all editions then you are going to have pieces from an edition I don't like being mixed into the overall system which will in turn put me off, which I'm sure is the case for others. Having a new system will bring everyone together looking at a whole new game.

If I am playing in a game of Shadowrun with someone who is a big fan of 4th edition D&D, I don't mind playing with them because we are apparently both fans of Shadowrun. Now I wouldn't want to sit at a table with someone who likes 4th edition but hates 3rd edition because I happen to like what he doesn't and don't like what he happens to like.

 

[wedgeski]

Depends on what you change the game into. It wasn't that I despised the change from 3rd to 4th, I just despised what the game changed in to and I'm not doubting I am alone in that feeling.

"I want it to be all-new, but only if that new thing is something I like!" isn't exactly a robust call for change, though. No-one can give you such guarantees.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

"I want it to be all-new, but only if that new thing is something I like!" isn't exactly a robust call for change, though. No-one can give you such guarantees.

Well I think what some posters are trying to say is that it was just the pure change that drove people away. I'm not doubting it did, but I would also say that it could have been what the game changed in to that drove people away as well.

 

[The Human Target]

That doesn't make sense.

How does making an all new game from scratch have a higher probability of you (or anyone else) enjoying that game?

 

[am181d]

Well I think what some posters are trying to say is that it was just the pure change that drove people away. I'm not doubting it did, but I would also say that it could have been what the game changed in to that drove people away as well.

So to clarify your point:

1) You don't like 4e
2) You don't like that elements of 4e may make it into the final version of 5e
3) You dislike 4e SO MUCH that you would prefer that 5e share NO elements with previous editions (4e included), even though you don't know whether you will like any of the entirely new elements

A couple of points:
1) There clearly is NOT going to be an edition of D&D that scraps all of the rules and starts over
2) Why, when given absolute freedom to suggest any version of D&D you like, are you suggesting a vague new version that you may or may not hate more than 4e rather than what you really seem to want (a new edition more similar to 3e and previous editions)?

It seems like the reason so many folks DIDN'T take to 4e was that it was such a significant break from the past. Why would you think repeating the same experiment that turned you off of 4e would be a good solution to the problem?

(For what it's worth, while I'm not the biggest 4e booster, I'm glad they took chances, and I wish that 5e would be similarly adventurous. But I understand the reality of what happened with 4e, and why they couldn't repeat the same set of decisions this time. I also think 4e would have better received, if not a better seller, if it was released as a separate RPG as opposed to a replacement for 3e.)