D&D 5E Why I Think D&DN is In Trouble

[Zardnaar]

Well, let's remember that Wizards isn't dependent on D&D for their profits. Their cardboard crack empire is vastly more profitable than D&D ever dreamed of being, even during the golden age of the '80s. It was M:tG that funded the purchase of TSR in the first place, and it's likely funding 5E development as well.

Hasbro still had to sign off on that decision, though.

DDI still brings in around 6 million a year as well.

 

[DMZ2112]

Well, let's remember that Wizards isn't dependent on D&D for their profits. Their cardboard crack empire is vastly more profitable than D&D ever dreamed of being, even during the golden age of the '80s.

M:TG is, in fact, Hasbro's top selling brand, beating Monopoly. We live in strange times. But historically, D&D has not been able to ride those coattails. Something has changed.

 

[Dausuul]

More than the RPG, for sure. But Magic doesn't have the cross-branding opportunity D&D does.

True. Still, you can only do so much with branding. It's hard to come by definite numbers, but as far as I can tell, Magic beats out D&D by an order of magnitude. Ryan Dancey is on record as saying D&D is around a $25-30 million brand; according to this, M:tG is near or over the $200 million mark.

M:TG is, in fact, Hasbro's top selling brand, beating Monopoly. We live in strange times. But historically, D&D has not been able to ride those coattails. Something has changed.

Well, for one thing, the renewed success of Magic (the above link indicates that sales have doubled in the last few years) probably means Wizards has more room to push their own agenda within Hasbro--especially if 4E was heavily influenced by demands from Hasbro brass. They could say, "We tried it your way and it bombed. We know this market. Let us do it our way."

 

[NewJeffCT]

Back on topic here, I see more threads here on the forum's first page for D&D Next, 4E and 3E/3.5E than Pathfinder. Pathfinder must be in trouble.

Maybe we should start a thread?

Quick count:
10 threads for D&D Next
10 for 3.0/3.5
4 for 4E
3 for PF
9 for All D&D
3 for OSR

There were a few others in the mix, but I didn't count them as they were less than the dying game of Pathfinder. (Zeitgeist, New, AD&D)

 

[DMZ2112]

True. Still, you can only do so much with branding.

Branding is pretty powerful. If I were Hasbro, and I were serious about this thing, I'd be in talks with Peter Jackson right now.

Well, for one thing, the success of Magic probably means Wizards probably has more room to push their own agenda within Hasbro--especially if 4E was heavily influenced by demands from Hasbro brass. They could say, "We tried it your way and it bombed. We know this market. Let us do it our way."

I like the sound of it.

No matter what, it is clear that the tabletop game is only one small part of a much larger plan for D&D in 2014 and going forward, and I could not be more excited about that.

Back on topic here, I see more threads here on the forum's first page for D&D Next, 4E and 3E/3.5E than Pathfinder. Pathfinder must be in trouble.

Maybe we should start a thread?

We're not off topic, we're just providing a counterpoint to Zardnaar's argument.

Oh wait, I see what you did there.

 

[fjw70]

Back on topic here, I see more threads here on the forum's first page for D&D Next, 4E and 3E/3.5E than Pathfinder. Pathfinder must be in trouble.

Maybe we should start a thread?

Sounds about as logical as many arguments on the internet.

 

[Mistwell]

Back on topic here, I see more threads here on the forum's first page for D&D Next, 4E and 3E/3.5E than Pathfinder. Pathfinder must be in trouble.

Maybe we should start a thread?

Yeah I find it particularly ironic that part of the "complaint" is that there isn't enough warring over 5e, which supposedly shows a "lack of passion" over the game. When Pathfinder came out, I don't recall a lot of "warring" going on about it. Lots talked about it, but not that many fought about it. When things are going well, it's just not as "noisy" as when things are off the rails. Lack of warring and noise is not an indicator of bad things, it seems like an indicator of good things.

 

[NewJeffCT]

Branding is pretty powerful. If I were Hasbro, and I were serious about this thing, I'd be in talks with Peter Jackson right now.



I like the sound of it.

No matter what, it is clear that the tabletop game is only one small part of a much larger plan for D&D in 2014 and going forward, and I could not be more excited about that.



We're not off topic, we're just providing a counterpoint to Zardnaar's argument.

Oh wait, I see what you did there.

seemed to be some excessive drooling over the Legos to me.

 

[Gadget]

I understand that. I am saying that if you didn't play pre-3E you would have no way of knowing that at all.

EDIT: As a matter of fact, I didn't know it was Greyhawk until I found out on these very boards.

I never got a copy of Manual of the Planes, so I never saw material about the Great Wheel in depth, other than some planes being mentioned in monster stat blocks. The core 3 books have a diagram of the Great Wheel, and nothing more.

The Astral Sea was indeed so much better of an idea, and I hope D&DN keeps it.

What I was speaking of was the mechanics of the game itself, particularly the spell system and magic items where tied fairly closely to the Great Wheel, and as a slight tangent, alignment. One did not have to buy the manual of the planes to become entangled in it. 4e's small sample pseudo-setting may have been more present in the core release (I'd have to look it up to be sure), but I hardly see how that would interfere with home brewing, and I didn't see the cosmology tied as tightly to the mechanics (again a boon for home brewing). If nothing else, 4e should get a lot of credit for largely decoupling mechanics from alignment, and simplifying the whole alignment spectrum (not to mention adding in the useful 'unaligned' option). Though I will say that, on reflection, 4e spilled a lot of ink over the new cosmology and things like dragonborn and tiefling origins, dawn war, etc. that 3e just may have assumed and not spent much time on. I'm not sure how much of that was in the core vs supplements though.

 

[Wulfgar76]

Another anecdote:

My 10-year-old son wants to start gaming in earnest with dad and his friends (we are playing the D&D Next playtest rules currently). I told him to wait till summer when D&DN comes out 'for real', so he can read about the races and classes and finally make his own character. The ponderous Pathfinder Core rulebook would bake the brain of a 10 year old I think. D&DN seems a much easier game for a younger gamer to learn and play.

I suppose my point is DDN seems to be the best game, for various reasons, to bring new players into the hobby. If it fails, I don't think that bodes well for the hobby in general.