cavalier973
Hero
If you want to discourage min-maxing, another idea you might steal from 13th Age is using the middle ability score to calculate defenses.
I had forgotten about that; good catch.
If you want to discourage min-maxing, another idea you might steal from 13th Age is using the middle ability score to calculate defenses.
It's not a structural change at all, is it? The only mechanical elements of 4e that are specified by reference to real-world time (as opposed to short or extended rest periods) are rituals, and they are not at the core of the game's structure.I do like the Full Heal Up system from 13A where players automatically get the equivalent of an extended rest every four encounters. The GM can hand out a full-heal up or even a partial heal up early if they want. But recharging HP and dailies is no longer tied to a day of game time unless you want it to be. Gives the GM great control over the pacing.
I'm concerned that this is such a large structural change that it would have unforseen impacts on the game, though.
I had forgotten about that; good catch.
What I worry about, I guess is balance. Obviously, deep down under the hood of 4e, there are assumptions about how many powers the players are going to have during any given fight. How much healing they have available is also a concern. 4e was designed with a certain pacing in mind. What kind of effects will there be if I tinker with that? I feel that it's likely that there are SOME, although they may be subtle.It's not a structural change at all, is it? The only mechanical elements of 4e that are specified by reference to real-world time (as opposed to short or extended rest periods) are rituals, and they are not at the core of the game's structure.
At paragon and epic, though, I'd be inclined to make it 5 or 6 encounters rather than 4.
Here's how I look at it: if you have an extened rest after every encounter, then dailies become encounter powers and healing surges become an encounter resource. What difference does that make?What I worry about, I guess is balance. Obviously, deep down under the hood of 4e, there are assumptions about how many powers the players are going to have during any given fight. How much healing they have available is also a concern. 4e was designed with a certain pacing in mind.
Wow, you wholesale gutted 4e!Our group is a bunch of engineers, so we weren't ready to let go of our tactical maps - maybe one 'generalised' battle every session or so, but we al feel more comfortable, and have more fun, with grids.
There were also mixed feelings on backgrounds instead of skills, and so although some really liked 13A's take, we stuck with 4e.
However, what we have taken includes:
- Escalation Die (and had the bonus not stack with expertise, so those feats are no longer a feat tax)
- Ten-level structure (I set it up so that each new level = three 4e levels, and you get a bonus one at a tier jump. Thus level 1 = 4e level 1; level 5 = 4e level 14; and level 10 = 4e level 30).
- Only 1 feat per level (again, removing feat tax, making feat more interesting)
- Incremental Advancements (after each session, choose one element of your next level to gain)
- Pass a save to SW a second time
- Can go negative with surges (with the penalty to rolls if you do so)
- Death Saves from 13A (change the numbers and results - makes for more bounceback, less downtime)
- Double and Triple main stat damage at paragon and epic
- Level to miss damage (and added to any miss damage that already exists)
- Can take ability modifiers from class and race (so, main one of race, and main one of class; a little flexibility allowed, too).
- "Fleeing" option spelled out at the start (run away from dangerous encounters!)
I also worked at cutting back powers by giving them "bonus points" for each power dropped, to add bonuses to other powers as they saw fit. 1 bonus a tier, and you had to give every power a bonus before giving any a second. Most bonuses are just an extra die of damage, but some were more interesting (making a power target ref or will instead of just one of them; slow + prone instead of just one, etc).
We're still getting the feel of it, but so far, things are working - one player dropped half his powers and managed to give his twin strike +2[W] damage - impressive, but not game breaking (because everyone is doing it). And when the whole group is doing similar things, it also allows them to get through encounters more quickly.
Wait, why would adapting 13A give you an extended rest after every encounter? I feel like I missed something here.Here's how I look at it: if you have an extened rest after every encounter, then dailies become encounter powers and healing surges become an encounter resource. What difference does that make?
It wouldn't. It would give you an extended rest after every N encounters (or, for more precision, every N XP worth of encounters). The question is, what value of N should be settled on?Wait, why would adapting 13A give you an extended rest after every encounter? I feel like I missed something here.
OK, I gotcha.It wouldn't. It would give you an extended rest after every N encounters (or, for more precision, every N XP worth of encounters). The question is, what value of N should be settled on?
There are two relevant considerations that I can think of: what effect does variation in N have on intraparty balance/dynamics? And what effect does variation in N have on the dynamics of the party vs the challenge?
Thinking about what happens if you have an extended rest after each encounter (which is the smallest possible value of N) helps work out what the effects will be on intraparty balance. And my contention is that, unless you're using martial E-classes, the effect is "not much". That is, again unless you're using martial E-classes, you don't need to worry about intraparty dynamics when choosing a value of N.
That then leaves the other relevant consideration, of the dynamics of party vs challenge. 13th Age is built around N = 4. 3E was (I gather) built around N = 4. I think, at least at paragon and epic 4e, if you use N=4 you will find that challenges aren't very challenging. Hence my suggestion that you might try N = 5 or N = 6.