Pathfinder 1E Mythic Pathfinder = how to break a game

[G3Geek]

Yeah this was tried already, this is how that conversation went

My email - The problem lies is the way fighter and mythic mesh, it causes an exponential power increase. I think it will be better for everyone if we just nix a few things now rather than discover the problem later and have to rebuild. I will explain the problem to everyone when I get home

Reply Email from DM - There's really nothing to fix, no problems with the mythic system as far as I'm concerned as a DM. I've read and reread the books and I'm comfortable with any combination or feats or styles anyone comes up and wants to play. I appreciate you looking out, but we're going to keep everything as is.

So to make sure I understand, Paizo attempted to solve the linear fighter/quadratic wizard by creating an exponential fighter but you're concerned that nothing has enough hp to challenge the exponential fighter?

 

[EnglishLanguage]

So to make sure I understand, Paizo attempted to solve the linear fighter/quadratic wizard by creating an exponential fighter but you're concerned that nothing has enough hp to challenge the exponential fighter?

Eh, debateable. Mythic Wizards have a lot more ways to break the game over it's knee than an 800 damage Fighter.

Also, I'm pretty sure an optimized 3.5 Fighter would laugh at 800 damage being called broken.

 

[RangerWickett]

Let us not discuss game mechanics when we should be discussing friendships.

Make two builds. If the first build is degenerate and makes the game too easy for you and too frustrating for the GM, switch to the other build. Your role is not to 'win,' but to contribute to everyone having fun.

 

[Jester David]

When I first read through the mythic rules I was impressed by the lack of oversight. I figured it would be a unpopular fad but it seems to have taken off and become the go-to splat book.

By "go-to splat book" you mean featured in a single AP, two small expansion books focused on the campaign setting, no other adventures, and no future products?

Until now, pathfinder has avoided the splat book nonsense by releasing a steady stream of spells, feats, and even classes that are pure garbage.

As opposed to 3e and 4e that were full of perfectly balanced material?

Now that the mythic rules are officially in play in Wrath of the Righteous and the splat is fully on, I am quietly waiting for the whole concept to crash our tabletop game to the ground.

Here's the thing, Mythic didn't join Wrath of the Righteous. Mythic was created FOR Wrath of the Righteous.
They wanted to do the big army-of-invading-demons storyline, dealing with closing the Worldwound and fighting demon lords. Which they couldn't do with the base rules, as that was an epic campaign and required monsters above and beyond the standard CRs.

If you don't know already, the gist of this adventure path is to run a group all the way to level 20/mythic 10. This seems a noble undertaking, but the fact is that players will always discover ways to break the game once you bring in too many splat books. While this was never my intent, I now foresee it being my future.

Skilled players can break the game with no splatbooks. Running Rise of the Runelords right now and I have a dwarf ranger taking apart my bosses. More splatbooks just make it easier.

No I'm not running this game, I am just feeling sorry for the guy who is. This path is supposed to take you to level 20 AND mythic 10 simultaneously. There will be augmented casters and rogues aplenty, but every build I apply to a fighter is ludicrous. A fully optimized two handed fighter (more of a glass cannon) could do a standard action single attack every round for over 800 damage and surge to do it twice. The two weapon build can out rogue a rogue with 55+ stealth and do well over 1k damage a round without even using surges

Just because you can break the game with an optimized build doesn't mean you have to break the game. That choice is all you. You can choose to take less optimal choices or RP-based choices.

APs also assume four players of moderate skill. They don't assume wicked optimized players because then the APs will grind lesser players to dust. That makes them less fun and more of a slog for the majority. If a table is filled with heavily optimized players then the GM needs to adjust encounters and tactics to match. Or maybe stack hp onto monsters.

I've hated PF for a while now due to the sheer volume of just useless garbage they produce. I really want to play dnd next ASAP. I think I will just play my character to the hilt and hope the DM figures out that this will eventually be a problem on his own

A lot of people here like Pathfinder. So you're not making friends by bashing the game. You can say your bit without the harsh language or calling the product garbage.

I sounds like you have two realistic options: play Pathfinder or leave the group.
Maybe they'll get on board with D&D Next when it's released, but that's five months away and you can get through a good chunk of an AP in that time. Maybe when there's more options and content for D&D5 they'll feel more willing to swap, such as after the AP when D&D5 has a couple splatbooks to its name. But maybe not.
So you can either play with your friends and bite your tongue, avoiding bringing down their fun. Or you can look for a new group to play with who are willing to play D&D5.

If you maybe a uber character and play to the extreme without regard for any of the other players, you are ruining the campaign for the entire table. Period. At that point the problem stops being the edition and starts being you, and the other players are more likely to decide the troublesome element is not the books but someone sitting at the table and decide it's easier (and cheaper) to just find another player.

 

[Hedonismbot]

I've hated PF for a while now due to the sheer volume of just useless garbage they produce. I really want to play dnd next ASAP. I think I will just play my character to the hilt and hope the DM figures out that this will eventually be a problem on his own

So the solution is "I don't think I'm going to have fun, so I'm going to burn the game to the ground to make sure no one does?"

If you're not having fun, why are you playing in this game?

 

[DMZ2112]

Let us not discuss game mechanics when we should be discussing friendships.

Make two builds. If the first build is degenerate and makes the game too easy for you and too frustrating for the GM, switch to the other build. Your role is not to 'win,' but to contribute to everyone having fun.

If friendships disintegrated over players breaking D20, the D&D community wouldn't have survived the first decade of the 21st century.

I say there are consequences to bad dungeon mastery, and if those consequences are not fulfilled, we will never have good dungeon mastery.

 

[Necromancy]

My build isn't even close to "optimized". I typically theme my builds around something specific. This was made to be a sunder build, able to wreck armor and crash through walls and doors ridiculously fast. The problem didn't become apparent to me until I planned the rest of the build out and realized how the powers meshed together to create something that was not foreseen. Then when I mentioned to the DM that I had a problem I was just waved off.

And 800 (actually double that to 1600 in a round) damage may not seem a lot to 3.5 epic builds but in pathfinder that can actually kill anything in the game that I can think of. Is it a problem if my fighter one-shots Orcus?

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

And 800 (actually double that to 1600 in a round) damage may not seem a lot to 3.5 epic builds but in pathfinder that can actually kill anything in the game that I can think of. Is it a problem if my fighter one-shots Orcus?

Why would you assume that WotW would use standard monsters in a non-standard campaign?

 

[Necromancy]

They won't use standard monsters. But that's not the problem. The problem is the amount of disparity in damage output that makes most other characters, even wizards, obsolete.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

They won't use standard monsters. But that's not the problem. The problem is the amount of disparity in damage output that makes most other characters, even wizards, obsolete.

Direct damage for wizards is not their best option. I'm sure they have just as epic of ways to bypass hit points as your fighter does in dishing out damage.