Pathfinder 1E So what do you think is wrong with Pathfinder? Post your problems and we will fix it.

[herrozerro]

EDIT: It appears you are right... My next question would be how is he drawing and throwing 6 daggers in less than 6 seconds? Again I have to go with magic... are there examples of someone who can throw this many knives accurately in less than 6 second?

Really? this is your nit-pick now?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZesjnWTY8w

Guinness World Records: The Great Throwdini - Knife Thrower. Dr. David R Adamovich (USA, aka The Great Throwdini) broke his Guinness World Record by hurling 102 throwing knives, each 14 in (36 cm) long, around his partner in one minute in Freeport, New York, USA, on December 26, 2007. Throwdini also holds the Guinness World Record for the fastest time to throw 10 knives around a human target in 4.29 secs making him a double Guinness World Record breaker.

and that's real life, a google search for worlds fastest knife thrower.

 

[billd91]

It does say "a" but I''m not going to quibble about something like that.

I think, with some things, you just have to say "It's not that kind of game, kid". (due respect to comments attributed to Harrison Ford regarding Star Wars)

There are games and styles of play that will expect the ammunition (in this case throwing weapons) to be accounted for. I think it's safe to say that 4e doesn't and wasnt' written to cater to them. 4e's conceits probably expect it to be more like the rogue holding a dagger in his hand only to have him fan it out like a deck of cards revealing he's actually got multiple daggers.

 

[Imaro]

Thank you, now do you have any more magical martial powers I can try to explain?

I'll grant that there may be some that are in the real of supernatural or extraordinary, but I don't fully buy the "it's magic!" bit.

Cool... How about Hide in Plain Sight for the rogue?

 

[Imaro]

I think, with some things, you just have to say "It's not that kind of game, kid". (due respect to comments attributed to Harrison Ford regarding Star Wars)

There are games and styles of play that will expect the ammunition (in this case throwing weapons) to be accounted for. I think it's safe to say that 4e doesn't and wasnt' written to cater to them. 4e's conceits probably expect it to be more like the rogue holding a dagger in his hand only to have him fan it out like a deck of cards revealing he's actually got multiple daggers.

This is what I find frustrating about the give me a "magic"martial power question (and why I tried to avoid it)... without us setting a mundane limit... how do we claim something is beyond it? 4e is exception based and monsters/NPC's are not built on the same chassis so how do we define default mundane vs. magic...

 

[herrozerro]

Cool... How about Hide in Plain Sight for the rogue?

Well, the requirement is that you must be hidden already. So it means that you hide really well. Note this just makes you visibly hidden, per the invisibility rules you can be found from making too much noise and other senses could still find you like tremorsense, truevision or other invisibility nullifying actions.

as for the flavor? depends on whats happening. could be hiding under or behind something, could be using your elven cloak to hide and it blends into the rocky area. your choice.

 

[herrozerro]

This is what I find frustrating about the give me a "magic"martial power question (and why I tried to avoid it)... without us setting a mundane limit... how do we claim something is beyond it? 4e is exception based and monsters/NPC's are not built on the same chassis so how do we define mundane vs. magic

With keywords. As noted already, the martial powe rsource is almost devoid of most magical keywords. It's usually untyped damage, no fancy effects like teleportation, and most of it's major effects rely on having a weapon or enough weapons or ammunition to make the attack successful.

 

[Imaro]

Well, the requirement is that you must be hidden already. So it means that you hide really well. Note this just makes you visibly hidden, per the invisibility rules you can be found from making too much noise and other senses could still find you like tremorsense, truevision or other invisibility nullifying actions.

as for the flavor? depends on whats happening. could be hiding under or behind something, could be using your elven cloak to hide and it blends into the rocky area. your choice.

Yes but with this power you could have hidden in shadows, have full light bathed on you with line of sight in a featureless corner and you would still be hidden as long as you stood still... that's not mundane skill, that's some kind of magic.

 

[Imaro]

With keywords. As noted already, the martial powe rsource is almost devoid of most magical keywords. It's usually untyped damage, no fancy effects like teleportation, and most of it's major effects rely on having a weapon or enough weapons or ammunition to make the attack successful.

But it was stated in the definition it is not traditional magic... and that seems to be the standard you are measuring it by... traditional magic. In other words we already know it's not traditional magic... what is the metric to determine whether it is a non-traditional from of magic...

EDIT: IMO, getting the boost of energy, in order to draw, aim, and attack with the precision to blind 6 different people with 6 daggers in less than 6 seconds is non-traditional magic.

 

[herrozerro]

Yes but with this power you could have hidden in shadows, have full light bathed on you with line of sight in a featureless corner and you would still be hidden as long as you stood still... that's not mundane skill, that's some kind of magic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rS5tzGfOBGU MAGIC!

But seriously, do you imagine the player using this power just says. "I just stand there and I'm invisible, not even trying to hide."? If so, then I imagine your confusion. Personally if this power was used I'd either ask the player why he is invisible or just make up why the enemies dont see him.

Perhaps he is posing next to a statue? Or dropped to the ground just in time? It's all dependant on the situation.

 

[herrozerro]

But it was stated in the definition it is not traditional magic... and that seems to be the standard you are measuring it by... traditional magic. In other words we already know it's not traditional magic... what is the metric to determine whether it is a non-traditional from of magic...

EDIT: IMO, getting the boost of energy, in order to draw, aim, and attack with the precision to blind 6 different people with 6 daggers in less than 6 seconds is non-traditional magic.

I guess to answer your question, it's up to the player. The martial power source is open enough for a player to have some kind of ki, or just brute strength or inhuman reflexes, or some kind of battle magic. Since fluff is mutable in 4e, it's up to the player what kind of martial ability his character subscribes to.

Your explanation of blinding barrage is valid, as well as my "I'm just that quick."