D&D 5E (2014) The new Dungeons & Dragons Starter Set - and online tools?

[PinkRose]

CHARACTER GENERATION WILL BE FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


That is all we need to know.

 

[fjw70]

CHARACTER GENERATION WILL BE FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


That is all we need to know.

I don't know much
But I know character creation will be free
And that may be
All I need to know.

 

[Iosue]

I don't know much
But I know character creation will be free
And that may be
All I need to know.

I broke something in my larynx trying to fit that second line to the melody...

 

[adamc]

I would argue that both of those stances are very much small niches in the overall playerbase. I doubt there are very many people who would refuse to play a product if it encourages the use of some app (Assuming it's not using the "F2P" model of ripping people off). I doubt there are very many people who would refuse to play a product if it isn't fully digital. I also think the weak performance over the past year of E-books strongly indicates "Fully digital only" is a niche.

Magic the Gathering does extremely well without using any apps, and recently banned them at tourneys. Magic the Gathering Online has always muddled about with a pretty low dedicated player base. That targets a much younger demographic, and they're just fine with "Analogue" gameplay.

I agree with what you are saying in general. I still think a reasonable character generation app is a must if they are going to have content (feats etc.) scattered across many books, if only because many of their potential 4e base will expect one. I might not absolutely refuse to DM a game without one, but I'd probably house-rule a single book (PHB) to make the complexity manageable, and that's not in their interests either. But I wouldn't expect such an app to be free, although that would be nice. :-D

 

[darjr]

So we agree, it's not a few pages. Unless the definition of "few" has drastically changed.

The options on the pregens are already there. Add a couple of spells, a couple of options, and a page about choosing between them.

Elf is probably there, dwarf is probably there, hobbit <del><del> halfling is probably there and human. Fighter, thief, wizard, and cleric are probably already there, up to 5th level. equipment is probably already there, and maybe even options to buy different equipment.

And I don't think anyone is talking about taking away the content that is already there. It's already a quick play box, just add chargen.

Even WotC agrees that chargen is important for the starter set, enough to make 15% of the PHB free on line. In my ideal the package would say, 'If you want more, here is some chargen rules right here in the box, and even more on line'. It's already a loss leader, and it looks like it doesn't contain the poster map and counters of the 4e starter. Are the page counts the same?

But it is a moot point. It won't change, it is what it is. Besides I don't think 5e's success hinges on this starter.
I do think it'd be a better product and really hook gamers that don't yet know they are gamers. I think chargen is very important for that. Not everyone is a rpg gamer.

 

[delericho]

Given this (from the front page):

He also said of the current 4th Edition character builder that it "will remain running as long as enough people subscribe". Which makes it sound - to me, at least - that that subscription would be separate to any potential 5th Edition subscriptions (if there are any).

and given that the CharGen 'gap' in the Starter Set is being filled by the 15% PHB online, I'm leaning back towards my theory that there won't be a 5e DDI as we would recognise it.

There might be some sort of CharGen tool made for the edition, but I would think there's a good chance it will be done by a third-party, whether with an official license or unofficially.

I agree with what you are saying in general. I still think a reasonable character generation app is a must if they are going to have content (feats etc.) scattered across many books...

I think that's the key assumption right there - that options will be scattered across many books.

 

[pemerton]

It's already a loss leader

I have seen others say this too. What is the evidence?

I assume that WotC intend the Starter Set to be one of their bigger-selling products. The margins may therefore be somewhat tight, but I personally would be surprised if they are selling at a loss. What would it be a lead to, if this were so?

WotC has already experienced a Starter Set with good sales but little leading (the 4e Essentials Red Box), and I doubt that they would set themselves up to lose money on every box sold in the event that the same thing should happen again.

 

[delericho]

The answer I never seem to be able to get is how something like Moldvay's chargen, which allowed you exactly two choices - pick your name and your equipment - more than the pregens is somehow crippling the game. The version of a Starter D&D that was the most popular D&D product ever, had essentially, randomly assigned pregens.

The answer to that is quite simple: in B/X, what was presented in the Basic box was the chargen method for the system. Yes, we've moved on since then and 3e/4e/PF/5e all have much more involved chargen methods that it is impractical to include in a $20 boxed set, but the principle is still there: one includes the full chargen process for the system; the other just includes some pregen characters.

(And, as mentioned up-thread, you've also omitted at least one of the decision points from B/X chargen - the ability to trade points from 'lesser' stats for a boost to your Prime Requisite on a 2-for-1 basis.)

That said...

As far as the whole, "Well, no chargen means it's not a full game", goes, that's, I'm sorry, ridiculous.

On this, however, I agree with you. Firstly because while I consider chargen a "ver nice-to-have" I don't consider it absolutely essential for a Starter Set, but secondly, and more importantly, because WotC are presenting 15% of the PHB online. This letter step not only fills the gap, but does so far more effectively than the Starter Set would have even if they had included the rules there. (And, even beyond that, it's likely we'll see a similar 15% MM/DMG document as well, since we know that we've not yet seen everything and we know that it will be possible to run a campaign with only the PHB.)

 

[delericho]

I have seen others say this too. What is the evidence?

I assume that WotC intend the Starter Set to be one of their bigger-selling products. The margins may therefore be somewhat tight, but I personally would be surprised if they are selling at a loss.

Yep. Their margins may be near-zero, but I would be extremely surprised if WotC were actually taking a loss on this box.

 

[darjr]

I only have my opinion and I think others have said that it probably is. Box sets are expensive. At $20 it is probably hair tight margins, or it's costing them money.

How much would this box set take to produce and distribute, given the details they've put out about it?