D&D 5E Wait, what IS the point of Acrobatics?

[sidonunspa]

Athletics (Acrobatics combined into it)

Except now you have guys built like tanks moving like gymnasts as well as power lifters doing performing parkour maneuvers like the guy James Bond chances down in the opening scene of Casino Royale.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Except now you have guys built like tanks moving like gymnasts as well as power lifters doing performing parkour maneuvers like the guy James Bond chances down in the opening scene of Casino Royale.

Only if they have the DEX to support it, in which case, what's the problem? If they don't have DEX and Proficiency, they're going to fail a lot of Acrobatics checks... I'm struggling to see why you'd think it was totally okay if they had STR 18, DEX 18, Athletics and Acrobatics, but not at all if they had STR 18, DEX 18, and "dual feature" Athletics... Can you explain?

You may also want to realize that a STR 20 Fighter can already do stuff like leap and grab the top of a what, 14' or 17' tall ledge (no check needed).

 

[DEFCON 1]

Except now you have guys built like tanks moving like gymnasts as well as power lifters doing performing parkour maneuvers like the guy James Bond chances down in the opening scene of Casino Royale.

Only slightly. Because like I mentioned, I will use the Variant rule about applying the skill to any applicable ability score. So if you're going to balance... it's a DEX check + Athletics if you have it. Or if you are going to climb, it's a STR check + Athletics.

It all comes down to how granular I feel I need to break out these individual physical actions. 3E did the completely granular route and have Climb, Jump, Swim, Tumble, and Balance all as individual skills... 4E combined them into Athletics and Acrobatics... I'm going to combine them even more and just put all of these physical actions into one "You're physically gifted" proficiency and apply it to whatever ability modifier makes the most sense.

So a tank Fighter will be making climb and jump checks probably at around a +5 at 1st level (+3 STR / +2 Athletics prof), and balance and acrobatic checks at a +1 or +2 (-1 or +0 DEX / +2 Athletics prof). Which I'm okay with, because the frequency at which players at my table ever need to check their balance or make acrobatic tumbles is so slight, I don't want to waste a skill in the game for it.

 

[sidonunspa]

Only slightly. Because like I mentioned, I will use the Variant rule about applying the skill to any applicable ability score. So if you're going to balance... it's a DEX check + Athletics if you have it. Or if you are going to climb, it's a STR check + Athletics.

It all comes down to how granular I feel I need to break out these individual physical actions. 3E did the completely granular route and have Climb, Jump, Swim, Tumble, and Balance all as individual skills... 4E combined them into Athletics and Acrobatics... I'm going to combine them even more and just put all of these physical actions into one "You're physically gifted" proficiency and apply it to whatever ability modifier makes the most sense.

So a tank Fighter will be making climb and jump checks probably at around a +5 at 1st level (+3 STR / +2 Athletics prof), and balance and acrobatic checks at a +1 or +2 (-1 or +0 DEX / +2 Athletics prof). Which I'm okay with, because the frequency at which players at my table ever need to check their balance or make acrobatic tumbles is so slight, I don't want to waste a skill in the game for it.

yes at low levels it seems slight, but at 20th level your character +0 dexterity bonus is better then someone with a natural dexterity of 20 at tumbling... most fighters would be sporting a 14 dex (+2 to Dexterity saves, which come into play Alot) that's +8 at 20th...

Heck a Rouge who takes Athletics as a focus is now the god of all around athleticism (stand back fighters!) sporting a +12 in all physical pursuits.. before attributes!

 

[Tony Vargas]

It all comes down to how granular I feel I need to break out these individual physical actions. 3E did the completely granular route and have Climb, Jump, Swim, Tumble, and Balance all as individual skills... 4E combined them into Athletics and Acrobatics... I'm going to combine them even more and just put all of these physical actions into one "You're physically gifted" proficiency and apply it to whatever ability modifier makes the most sense.

On one hand, that does make a lot of sense. The distinction between Athletics & Acrobatics in 4e was little more than the stat mod you added to it, with 5e making that flexible, consolidating the skills seems like an obvious idea.

OTOH, it prettymuch puts everything a fighter and rogue might do into one bucket, making the classes less distinct. While I wouldn't mind going all the way and just giving the rogue's stuff to the fighter (you could put everything the fighter and thief/rogue got in every edition together in one class and still not even touch the versatility of 5e neo-Vancian casters), if the classes are going to be separate, they need to be distinct, and having both use the same proficiency to do all their physical stunts doesn't exactly do that.

 

[Remathilis]

Acrobatics could be used for.

1.) Balancing on precarious ledges, beams, and ropes.
2.) Swinging from rope to rope
3.) Squeezing in tight spots
4.) Flips and Rolls through combat.
5.) Avoiding being grappled/pushed/tripped
6.) Climbing quickly through ropes/webs
7.) Not slipping on slick ground/ice
8.) skirting around a pit or trap switch
9.) Jumping /down/ from something without injury.
10.) Running through a crowd without colliding into people.

Remember, skills aren't something you need to be trained in to use; they're just bonuses to ability checks with certain elements of a skill. A character with proficiency in acrobatics doesn't have special abilities form it, just whenever a DM calls for a Dexterity check that might involve agility or balance, the character adds his acrobatics bonus to the check. So any character could make these checks, but the proficient character is going to make them more often.

 

[Nergal Pendragon]

Acrobatics is very useful if you have a Bayonetta-style "fighting on debris while falling from orbit" encounter.

Which, strangely, used to come up in games I was in fairly frequently. Rings of resist fire and magic items that eliminated the need to breathe were very popular...

 

[DEFCON 1]

On one hand, that does make a lot of sense. The distinction between Athletics & Acrobatics in 4e was little more than the stat mod you added to it, with 5e making that flexible, consolidating the skills seems like an obvious idea.

OTOH, it pretty much puts everything a fighter and rogue might do into one bucket, making the classes less distinct. While I wouldn't mind going all the way and just dividing the rogue's stuff between the fighter (you could put everything the fighter and thief/rogue got in every edition together in one class and still not even touch the versatility of 5e neo-Vancian casters), if the classes are going to be separate, they need to be distinct, and having both use the same proficiency to do all their physical stunts doesn't exactly do that.

For our table... I'm less concerned about any one particular skill than I am the entirety of the classes themselves, which are already different enough that I'm not worried about it. Especially considering that the Rogue could easily end up taking Athletics and Acrobatics both anyways... thereby rendering the whole point moot. I just don't want to have in our skill list what our table would consider to be vastly underused skills-- and Acrobatics, Animal Handling, Sleight of Hand and such all fall into that category. If we can go two or three sessions in a row and not see the skills used by anybody at our table even once... they probably aren't worth having in our list.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

I'm not a fan of combining Athletics with Acrobatics, simply because I think it makes the skill too powerful. True, we have the uber-skills of Perception and Stealth, but most of the other skills are more or less balanced (especially if you use History to represent knowledge of humanoids and 3e Knowledge (local)). I don't want to redo the skill list this time like I did with 3e.

I'll admit though, that the usefulness of Acrobatics is now heavily dependent on DM fiat. I'm personally a strong fan of acrobatic maneuvering, so I'm pretty liberal with it as a DM. But as a player wanting to make an acrobatic character, I'd have to pre-discuss it with the DM prior to character creation to make sure I can make my concept in his game.

Acrobatics could be used for.

1.) Balancing on precarious ledges, beams, and ropes.
2.) Swinging from rope to rope
3.) Squeezing in tight spots
4.) Flips and Rolls through combat.
5.) Avoiding being grappled/pushed/tripped
6.) Climbing quickly through ropes/webs
7.) Not slipping on slick ground/ice
8.) skirting around a pit or trap switch
9.) Jumping /down/ from something without injury.
10.) Running through a crowd without colliding into people.

Remember, skills aren't something you need to be trained in to use; they're just bonuses to ability checks with certain elements of a skill. A character with proficiency in acrobatics doesn't have special abilities form it, just whenever a DM calls for a Dexterity check that might involve agility or balance, the character adds his acrobatics bonus to the check. So any character could make these checks, but the proficient character is going to make them more often.

Yep, good examples.

 

[Blackbrrd]

Acrobatics could be used for.

1.) Balancing on precarious ledges, beams, and ropes.
2.) Swinging from rope to rope
3.) Squeezing in tight spots
4.) Flips and Rolls through combat.
5.) Avoiding being grappled/pushed/tripped
6.) Climbing quickly through ropes/webs
7.) Not slipping on slick ground/ice
8.) skirting around a pit or trap switch
9.) Jumping /down/ from something without injury.
10.) Running through a crowd without colliding into people.

Remember, skills aren't something you need to be trained in to use; they're just bonuses to ability checks with certain elements of a skill. A character with proficiency in acrobatics doesn't have special abilities form it, just whenever a DM calls for a Dexterity check that might involve agility or balance, the character adds his acrobatics bonus to the check. So any character could make these checks, but the proficient character is going to make them more often.

Good examples of dex based athletics is what I am reading.

I didn't think about it before it was mentioned in this thread, but merging Acrobatics/Athletics into one, and just calling it Dex(Athletics) or Str (Athletics) checks makes a lot of sense.

I have a player with a character in 4e with super-high Acrobatics and medium-high Athletics. He wants every check to be an Acrobatics-check. It's something like +11 vs +7. If I instead could ask for an Str(MergedAcrobaticsAthletics) check, he would get a +9 and it would make a lot more sense to me.