D&D 5E A bard walks into a bar

[gyor]

I kind of liked Vicious Mockery myself. Even as an HP-as-meat guy. I always imagined the target of the spell simply springing wounds from their flesh as the bard insulted and belittled them, literally shredding them to ribbons with cutting insults.

"Your nose is repulsive! Your face would be better without it!" and slices appear on the target's face.

"You're a fool for marching behind this blackguard!" and the target stumbles as his leg muscles experience a sudden slice.

"Thank you for cooling my skin, but I can't help but think you waggling your sword around like that is a tremendously inefficient way to fan me." And the target's arms begin to bleed from cuts.

"Sniveling whelp." And the orc's skin is flayed from her bones in an instant.

That's part of the awesome bard magic to me, the ability to shape words into weapons. What a wizard does with bullets of force, a bard does with barbed tongues.

That said, it is a cantrip. Would not be shocked if it did no damage in 5e.

The way I picture it, the insult of vicious mockery so enrages the target, that it has a minor stroke, which causes the damage.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

This is complete untrue, Majoru, and Gamers 2 was apparently written by people who know nothing about D&D.

2E. You orate or sing. You don't play a goddamn instrument to grant the bonus.
3.5E You SING. SING. SING. Not play a goddamn instrument. Right here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/bard.htm#inspireCourage
Pathfinder: You do whatever you want so long as it's perform - it's not even specified - Oratory, Acting, Singing - Instrument if you want, but no-one is making you.
4E. You sing, or orate, or whatever the hell you want.

Singing sounds so poor by itself, might as well play an instrument to have some accompaniment.

Besides, it doesn't so much matter if it is singing or playing an instrument. It's still silly. And even though you COULD just sing, that didn't stop nearly every bard in existence from saying "No, I don't need to attack...I'm singing, so I do nothing this turn."

 

[Moorcrys]

Looking good to me. And I like the art - she looks like a badass.

I haven't looked at the alpha playtest, so I don't know what they can actually do... but for a fluffy preview it certainly makes me excited to get my filthy paws on a Player's Handbook, which is the point of these previews I'd imagine.

 

[Henry]

Singing sounds so poor by itself, might as well play an instrument to have some accompaniment.

Besides, it doesn't so much matter if it is singing or playing an instrument. It's still silly. And even though you COULD just sing, that didn't stop nearly every bard in existence from saying "No, I don't need to attack...I'm singing, so I do nothing this turn."

I don't know what the heck those lazy minstrels were doing, 'cause I was belting out poetry while plinking away with my crossbow or bow when I played my bard.

Seriously, there's nothing to stop a bard from launching their inspiration and then moving to something else, because it lasts for 5 rounds after you stop -- pretty much the length of the combat.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Singing sounds so poor by itself, might as well play an instrument to have some accompaniment.

But as I've shown, I hope, you literally do not need it.

Besides, it doesn't so much matter if it is singing or playing an instrument. It's still silly. And even though you COULD just sing, that didn't stop nearly every bard in existence from saying "No, I don't need to attack...I'm singing, so I do nothing this turn."

I've never come across this "I don't need to attack" business, so I'm really skeptical that "nearly every bard in existence" did it, especially as there was no edition which specified using an instrument. It seems more like this is a hackneyed stereotype that people like to get lolz out of to me, but y'know, YMMV.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

First: I have played nearly every bard in the bard handbook of 2e and played bards in 3e and a little in 4e

Some things I noticed in your text:

They levelled so fast that they challenged the Wizard for highest level spell they could cast.

snip

So... I do like the 5E Bard, but I don't really like the focus on spellcasting or the slightly boring spell list, and the fact that they cut his ability to buff the party (as opposed to single specific members for single actions) during combat out entirely for the first time, what, ever? COMPLETELY TERRIBLE.

,

You are contradicting yourself
The bard in 2e was nearly a full spellcaster as you mentioned. His generous xp progression allowed him to have level 3 spells at the same time the wizard does and then he casts at lvl 7, not 5. He has slightly less spells per day and so it evens out.

Now in 5e he is finally a full spellcaster again. So actually his focus on spellcasting is not really more than in 2e.

The bard has a lot of skills, and is capable of fighting (like in 2e) d6 hp in 2e with fast progresion equals d8 here.

In 2e, as per RAW, the bard did not sing during the fight, but he had to sing before the fight to bolster his allies. So all in all, the 5e bard is very comparable to the 2e bard.

I do believ bolsteing allies will be done via spellcasting. There really is no need to have additional layers. His spells are his songs. And if you add subclasses, there will most probably be a subclass that bolsters allies during fights.
[MENTION=39652]Yo[/MENTION]ur opinion about the bards tier in 3e:
I don´t agree with you. In 3.0 the bard was really somewhere at the bottom of the barrel. Especially when you compare 2e with 3e (his spellcasting and hp was toally nerfed, both in selection of spells as in power, due to xp progression) It was sad. 3.5 remedied a bit by giving him some exclusive spells and shifting some bard spells to lower levels (tasha´s hideous loughter) and allowing him to cast in armor, which even the 2e bard was not allowed. Pathfinder (although i don´t play it) made the bard decent again, by upping hp, spellcasting and skills.
Last, the 5e playtest bard was quite imbalanced. Too few hp, and spellcasting. Way overpowered battle songs. Not working for a base class.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

You are contradicting yourself
The bard in 2e was nearly a full spellcaster as you mentioned. His generous xp progression allowed him to have level 3 spells at the same time the wizard does and then he casts at lvl 7, not 5. He has slightly less spells per day and so it evens out.

Now in 5e he is finally a full spellcaster again. So actually his focus on spellcasting is not really more than in 2e.

Can you explain to me how this is a "contradiction"? I'm confused.

In 2e, as per RAW, the bard did not sing during the fight, but he had to sing before the fight to bolster his allies. So all in all, the 5e bard is very comparable to the 2e bard.

For three rounds before the fight, yes, but the 5E one cannot do even that.

I do believ bolsteing allies will be done via spellcasting. There really is no need to have additional layers. His spells are his songs.

I was thinking the exact same until I saw the Alpha Bard spell list!

The Bard has none of the expected "buff the party" spells. I see literally no party-buffing spells in his list from spell levels 1-5 (stopped looking after that, because campaigns that go past 10 are somewhat uncommon, I am told).

Cleric has Bless, Protection from Evil, Aid, Beacon of Hope, Magic Circle, Prayer, Death Ward in those levels.

I'm not saying the Bard should have the same exact spells, but when both Bless and Prayer do the exact same things as pre-5E Bard abilities (i.e. buff the party by a small amount during combat), I think that is a big problem.

What's weird is, all the Paladin's Auras are spells (makes sense, right?) but none of the Bard's songs are.

I do think what you're proposing is a good design, but it isn't the design in the Playtest or the Alpha. Let's hope it changed.

And if you add subclasses, there will most probably be a subclass that bolsters allies during fights.

In the Playtest, all did. In the Alpha, you can only buff 1 ally for 1 roll, CHA mod times/day. You have to do this pre-emptively and it costs a Bonus action (so 1/round at most).

3.5 remedied a bit by giving him some exclusive spells and shifting some bard spells to lower levels (tasha´s hideous loughter) and allowing him to cast in armor, which even the 2e bard was not allowed. Pathfinder (although i don´t play it) made the bard decent again, by upping hp, spellcasting and skills.

I agree.

Last, the 5e playtest bard was quite imbalanced. Too few hp, and spellcasting. Way overpowered battle songs. Not working for a base class.

I'm not saying he didn't need adjusting, I'm saying a Bard who can't sing/orate and buff the party isn't really a D&D Bard. If the Cleric can have Bless and Aid, the Bard can certainly have them too, or Bard versions of them.

This would be easy to fix by making Song-Spells, the Alpha didn't have those, let's hope the actual release does.

 

[LostSoul]

The way I picture it, the insult of vicious mockery so enrages the target, that it has a minor stroke, which causes the damage.

The way I DMed the power was that it would drive the target insane. Creatures reduced to 0 HP by it would take their own lives as a default. If the player actually said something their behaviour might be different, but with 0 HP they didn't have much staying power.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Can you explain to me how this is a "contradiction"? I'm confused.

You said you don´t like the spell fokus, but liked the bards spell progression in AD&D where you correctly stated that a bard did rarely lag behin wizards in spellcasting power.

This would be easy to fix by making Song-Spells, the Alpha didn't have those, let's hope the actual release does.

The open playtest was different, the spellist of alpha seemed incomplete. I missed summon spells too.
I hope that the bard gets some song spells. Words of courage or something would be nice.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

You said you don´t like the spell fokus, but liked the bards spell progression in AD&D where you correctly stated that a bard did rarely lag behin wizards in spellcasting power.

That's true, but they got that AS WELL as their other stuff! I guess I should be clear that I don't want it INSTEAD!

The open playtest was different, the spellist of alpha seemed incomplete. I missed summon spells too. I hope that the bard gets some song spells. Words of courage or something would be nice.

Yep. Fingers crossed that they added some last-minute spells to the Bard list to make up for the missing songs. It would only take literally 3-4 spells, tops.

I guess I can always design them for my game - but I don't get to play MY game!