D&D 5E I'm surprised there hasn't been a mention of the Vistani.

[Shemeska]

I wonder if modern-day druids are offended by portrayals of D&D druids. The only thing the D&D druid has in common with real-life druids is the name. Certainly real-life druids could not cast actual magic spells. Very little information about real-life druids survived to the modern day and most of that information came from the Romans, not exactly an unbiased source.

The modern day druid has about as much in common with the D&D druid as they do the historical druids. They're a modern day appropriation of the name / or an attempt at reconstruction, depending on your perspective. But the modern druids certainly aren't practicing human sacrifice and killing Romans.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I would love to see them as a sub race of humans with cool race features.... and they are not gypsys so can we please drop that they are offensive... they are a magical socoity of wanders that have firm roots in fantasy

It certainly doesn't seem like anyone on this thread is actually Roma, which diminishes their ability to discern whether or not the Vistani are offensive as previously depicted.

I6 and the 2E Ravenloft material certainly attempts to reproduce the gypsies of early monster movies, though, and it's sort of silly to suggest otherwise.

It's certainly POSSIBLE to create a more nuanced and rounded Vistani culture, but I'm not sure the (yes) offensive "gypsy" stereotype is a good starting point. Throwing out everything about the Vistani except for them being nomadic, Strahd-adjacent and having access to divination magic is probably the way to go, if they have to be perpetuated at all.

 

[Remathilis]

It certainly doesn't seem like anyone on this thread is actually Roma, which diminishes their ability to discern whether or not the Vistani are offensive as previously depicted.

I6 and the 2E Ravenloft material certainly attempts to reproduce the gypsies of early monster movies, though, and it's sort of silly to suggest otherwise.

It's certainly POSSIBLE to create a more nuanced and rounded Vistani culture, but I'm not sure the (yes) offensive "gypsy" stereotype is a good starting point. Throwing out everything about the Vistani except for them being nomadic, Strahd-adjacent and having access to divination magic is probably the way to go, if they have to be perpetuated at all.

4e had an article that made them a bloodline/feat for human and halflings that basically did that, although they still tried to emulate the horror movie gypsy element.

(I remember it because it felt like another unique D&D trope ripped out the chest of a classic D&D world and grafted onto Points-of-light-silvania; shoved in right between warforged clerics of Bane exploring the Tomb of Horrors.)

Sadly, it appears to have gone into the ether of the WotC site-revamp. I do suspect between that and a few references to Strahd and Vistani in 4e, that they will make an appearance in 5e.

 

[Morrus]

The word "gypsy" is so freely used these days that it can be hard to know what's meant by it - it's used a derogatory term for the Irish travlling community, for example. However, the Vistani are clearly derivative of the Romani (incidentally, the USA is the world's largest population of Romani people). Vistani, as a fictional group loosely based on historical Romani people in the same way that other D&D elements are loosely based on various historical elements, is probably the safest way to refer to them in D&D terms.

 

[the Jester]

(incidentally, the USA is the world's largest population of Romani people).

We even have reality shows about them.

EDIT: Just to be clear, the is for the reality shows, not for the Romani.

 

[Scrivener of Doom]

Yup, like Druids and Knights that both could be part of your ansestry... and there are modern people who call themselves druids

My paternal grandfather's family were descendants of druids. He was obliged to convert to a certain religion in order to marry my paternal grandmother.

And I have never been offended by a fantasy portrayal of druids.

 

[Jester David]

I'm a big Ravenloft fan and looking forward to reading (or writing) some support for that setting, including Vistani, and the PC variant half-Vistani.

However, I'd rather get nothing than what we got for 4e, where they made full blooded Vistani a PC race and made them available to all races. That felt a little like releasing PC options for the a Dreaming a Dark over the kalashtar, or drow in place of wood elves.
Vistani were always walking tools of the DM, mysterious and unknowable. Making them PCs went against that purpose.


Racism is a potential issue with the Vistani, as they are giant walking stereotypes. However, it' shard to avoid tapping stereotypes when writing stories in certain genres. Gypsies are inexorably tied to Gothic fiction, the Victorian world, and related adaptations. Even the latest Sherlock Holmes movie relied on gypsy stereotypes (in a far less flattering way than the Vistani).
It's a little like trying to tell a Western without touching on Native American tropes. It's archetypal.

 

[Remathilis]

Racism is a potential issue with the Vistani, as they are giant walking stereotypes. However, it' shard to avoid tapping stereotypes when writing stories in certain genres. Gypsies are inexorably tied to Gothic fiction, the Victorian world, and related adaptations. Even the latest Sherlock Holmes movie relied on gypsy stereotypes (in a far less flattering way than the Vistani).
It's a little like trying to tell a Western without touching on Native American tropes. It's archetypal.

I think you hit on an important part: both of those genre's touch on the concept of "the other". That is, a culture or society not part of the norm that often has "ancient wisdom" or "mystical power" and lives a more "primitive" lifestyle, very often as travelers/wanderers (as settling down would "civilize" them) and are distrusted by the dominant culture.

Gypsies are not alone in role: Native American shamans, Caribbean "voodoo priestesses", Asian martial artists/mystics all have suffered this "otherness" which portray them a spooky, savage, and otherly.

I guess the real question is: should D&D attempt to avoid these cultural stereotypes or keep them due to their place in the genre, which is a political debate not suited for ENWorld.

Still, it gives one food for thought.

 

[Charles Wright]

To answer the OP - I think that it will be seen when, and if, they do a Ravenloft supplement for 5th edition. Whether that is a small softcover, a large hardback, a box set, or vaporware remains to be seen.

I'm sure that there will be Ravenloft fan sites out there offering free game mechanics for emulating the setting if it doesn't happen or takes to long to happen.

 

[Sonny]

4e had an article that made them a bloodline/feat for human and halflings that basically did that, although they still tried to emulate the horror movie gypsy element.

(I remember it because it felt like another unique D&D trope ripped out the chest of a classic D&D world and grafted onto Points-of-light-silvania; shoved in right between warforged clerics of Bane exploring the Tomb of Horrors.)

Sadly, it appears to have gone into the ether of the WotC site-revamp. I do suspect between that and a few references to Strahd and Vistani in 4e, that they will make an appearance in 5e.

The old site, tools and articles are still there. Go to Product Info > Tabletop Games > Digital Tools. (Subscriber account needed of course to access the magazines)