D&D 5E 5th Edition -- Help Me Break the Game!

[Werebat]

"Pfft" indeed. Play the game, building the character up from level 1; you'll see how broken in fact it is. I stand by Not at All -- It's a fragile build.

Yes, yes! THIS is the way to play it! Find something suitably OP and then constantly harp about how weak it is (while choosing to play it, of course!)

Think of all those "The Gunslinger is gimpy" threads over on the Paizo forums! Those are CLASSIC!

"Sure my TWF pistolier with double-barreled weapons and a prehensile mustache can do a lot of damage -- IF he's within 20' of the enemy (let's forget about the Distance weapon enchantment for a moment, M'kay?), but doing lots of damage is ALL he can do! I mean, the sorcerer is free to do all sort of stuff like make an illusion of a kobold, and the bard can do a little jig and try to lie to the enemy! All my Gunslinger can do is reduce enemies to a fine red paste in one round! He's sooooo gimpy!"

 

[jadrax]

Of course, this is the outlook that leads to an audit at 8th level where everyone is shocked to learn how ridiculously overburdened they are.

Tue story, I once did and audit and discovered one of my players had a Blacksmith's Forge he was carrying in his backpack...

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I don't think anyone has mentioned Eldritch Blast cheese yet.

If you take two levels in Warlock, you can get EB and Agonizing Blast (and another Invocation of your choice, which could be the knock-back invocation, for example, or for pure DPR, the half-damage-on-a-miss-with-EB one, assuming that made it into the PHB). So you'd attack with CHA + proficiency and do 1d10+CHA damage and do half-damage on a miss, would be doing so at range, and any time you could cast a Cantrip (fr'ex, Bard at 7th gets cantrip and melee, no?), and you get extra beams (same again as first beam) at 5/10/20, so basically Fighter attack progression. With a 120ft range spell which does half-damage on a miss.

Combine with various classes for various levels of eyebrow-raising pain.

I predict that WotC will nerf this like it was 4th Edition, of course.

 

[Urbanmech]

I think cantrip scaling is tied to class level. A 4th level warlock is stuck with one blast.
Same as a 4th level fighter is stuck with one melee attack. Class level matters
A lot more in 5e. Attribute bumps aren't baked in every 4 levels. A fighter 2/barbarian 2 is not going to get a stat bump/feat like a fighter 4 would.

 

[kerbarian]

If you take two levels in Warlock, you can get EB and Agonizing Blast (and another Invocation of your choice, which could be the knock-back invocation, for example, or for pure DPR, the half-damage-on-a-miss-with-EB one, assuming that made it into the PHB). So you'd attack with CHA + proficiency and do 1d10+CHA damage and do half-damage on a miss, would be doing so at range, and any time you could cast a Cantrip (fr'ex, Bard at 7th gets cantrip and melee, no?), and you get extra beams (same again as first beam) at 5/10/20, so basically Fighter attack progression. With a 120ft range spell which does half-damage on a miss.

The half-damage-on-a-miss invocation didn't make it into the PHB. It's also unclear how you add Cha to the blasts -- I would guess once per target (so more total damage if you split up the beams) based on Mike Mearls' tweet about Empowered Evocation plus Magic Missile.

Eldritch Knight is the one that gets cantrip plus bonus attack at 7th -- Bard gets any bard spell plus bonus attack at 14th (College of Valor).

Warlocks can have solid DPR, but less than a fighter or barbarian I think. And they can also toss off a couple Fireballs, but they won't do it as well or as often as an evocation wizard or dragon sorcerer. Seems reasonably balanced between the two (without having played one yet).

Bard with two levels of Warlock for DPR isn't bad, but you could also just take the Spell Sniper feat to pick up Eldritch Blast. I probably wouldn't want to lose two levels of Bard just for +Cha to at-will attacks.

Bard with Crossbow Expert making lots of shots with a hand crossbow shots is also pretty respectable DPR. They're the only full caster that gets an extra attack, so their damage could be 3d6 + 12 at 6th level.

 

[kerbarian]

I think cantrip scaling is tied to class level. A 4th level warlock is stuck with one blast.
Same as a 4th level fighter is stuck with one melee attack. Class level matters
A lot more in 5e.

I've been wondering about that, but I don't see anything that says cantrip scaling is based on caster level -- the cantrip descriptions just talk about "level", and lacking any qualifiers I have to assume that means character level.

There are some other weird cases of that, like the warlock invocation requirements. For example, I believe you could be a 13th-level Fighter and then take two levels of Warlock, and for your first two invocations you could pick ones that have "15th level" as a requirement.

 

[Bryk]

Yes, I have played one, have you? If you have, you'd know having Shield in your back pocket is an invaluable tool for emergencies.

First, the key is that it is cast as a reaction on being hit so it is never a wasted cast, like Shield of Faith (or even Mage Armor) might be. Depending on the thing that hits you, and your remaining HP, you could decide just to absorb the blow and not spend the L1 spell slot. At later levels as you get more spell slots that becomes less of an issue anyway, until you hit 18 and then it is a non-factor.

And second, with my suggested setup I am not spending a guaranteed L1 spell slot on Mage Armor AND I still have a higher normal AC than you. With 20 AC just from plate armor + a shield, and sitting in the back sniping with spells, I'm rarely hit anyway. It also frees up a magic item "slot" for something else, as more +AC is overkill. You also get other benefits from Cleric 1 that we aren't talking about here.

Lastly, this makes DEX a viable dump stat if you aren't using ranged weapons. That makes STR/DEX/CHA all potential dump stats, depending on how you want to build your Wizard. With a standard 27 PB there are some points left over after 15 INT/15 CON/13 WIS to play around with.

You are missing:

1. Not sure what kind of DM is going to start a low level character off with Plate Armor until level 3/4? (gold requirement alone??)
2. You need the STR for heavy armor. So no, STR isn't a dump stat. You'll always be behind in max spell level and often number of spell slots.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Not to be a troll, but I think this thread has things exactly backwards. The point of diving into the mechanical minutiae of a game like 1e AD&D or 5e D&D isn't to break it - it's to fix it.

 

[Deltabeoulve]

I've been wondering about that, but I don't see anything that says cantrip scaling is based on caster level -- the cantrip descriptions just talk about "level", and lacking any qualifiers I have to assume that means character level.

There are some other weird cases of that, like the warlock invocation requirements. For example, I believe you could be a 13th-level Fighter and then take two levels of Warlock, and for your first two invocations you could pick ones that have "15th level" as a requirement.

I have been wondering on this myself. I've had several arguments about it recently and would like some more feedback from everyone else. Are the invocations class level restricted..or overall level restricted?

 

[the Jester]

I have been wondering on this myself. I've had several arguments about it recently and would like some more feedback from everyone else. Are the invocations class level restricted..or overall level restricted?

My guess is overall.

Someone else pointed out in another thread that an elf can have a cantrip with no caster levels at all. I think the idea is to enable decent multiclassing. Then again, I'm speaking based on what I've heard/read online and Basic, and haven't yet actually seen a PH.