D&D 5E 5th Edition -- Help Me Break the Game!

[Mouseferatu]

It's taken me awhile to get my head around it, but I'm about positive it's total/overall level. That feels wrong, coming from the prior two editions, but that's just it: It's knowledge of the prior editions that even makes us question this. Unless I missed it (which is possible), it never says in the book that it's not overall level, and every other reference specifies if it's talking about class level rather than character. Therefore, taking the edition purely as its own thing...

 

[GrumpyGamer]

The spell slot rules under multiclassing have an example of casting burning hands based on a caster level formula and I think it is likely you use this formula for cantrips. The only issue with this idea is that pact magic does not stack with any other magic and the warlock levels would not scale for cantrips.

 

[Mouseferatu]

The spell slot rules under multiclassing have an example of casting burning hands based on a caster level formula and I think it is likely you use this formula for cantrips. The only issue with this idea is that pact magic does not stack with any other magic and the warlock levels would not scale for cantrips.

Hmm. You may be right, and it means I was incomplete in my earlier analysis, since I discussed overall level and class level but not caster level, which could be quite different than either of the other two.

I could get behind "cantrips scale by caster level," but where does that leave our elves, people with the Magic Initiate feat, etc?

 

[Paraxis]

This is why I prefer the cold clear technical language of 4th edition, keep the mechanics consistent and separate from fluff.

I read it as RAW like i do everything, level = total character level.

 

[kerbarian]

The spell slot rules under multiclassing have an example of casting burning hands based on a caster level formula and I think it is likely you use this formula for cantrips. The only issue with this idea is that pact magic does not stack with any other magic and the warlock levels would not scale for cantrips.

That example is about scaling based on spell slot used, not character/caster level -- Burning Hands doesn't scale based on level. They talk about adding together your levels in certain classes to determine your available spell slots, but there's never a "caster level" defined.

 

[Kobold Stew]

In terms of "level" for spells etc, I think there's a few things being blurred together:

I have been wondering on this myself. I've had several arguments about it recently and would like some more feedback from everyone else. Are the invocations class level restricted..or overall level restricted?

With invocations (which appear on a table describing a particular class) the level limit is (I believe) intended to refer to that particular class. It's in the "Warlock" rules, and so it revers to a 15th-level Warlock.

The spell slot rules under multiclassing have an example of casting burning hands based on a caster level formula and I think it is likely you use this formula for cantrips. The only issue with this idea is that pact magic does not stack with any other magic and the warlock levels would not scale for cantrips.

Cantrips, however, can be accessed by characters with no spell levels at all, and are not part of the rules for a particular class (they are an ability shared by several classes and some races). therefore I believe that references to "level" with cantrips refer to the total level.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Cantrips, however, can be accessed by characters with no spell levels at all, and are not part of the rules for a particular class (they are an ability shared by several classes and some races). therefore I believe that references to "level" with cantrips refer to the total level.

Indeed, there is no other viable interpretation. The Spell Slinger Feat alone (which is clearly about giving an attack Cantrip to anyone who wants it) invalidates any idea that cantrips have some kind of floaty "caster level" which is separate from character level.

 

[GrumpyGamer]

Indeed, there is no other viable interpretation. The Spell Slinger Feat alone (which is clearly about giving an attack Cantrip to anyone who wants it) invalidates any idea that cantrips have some kind of floaty "caster level" which is separate from character level.

I am pretty close to agreeing with you, but diving back into this one more time under Spellcasting in the multiclass rules it says, "Your capacity for spellcasting depends partly on your combined levels in all your spellcasting classes and partly on your individual levels in those classes." Cantrips are a spellcasting feature and so it is implied that they fall under this rule.

 

[GrumpyGamer]

Indeed, there is no other viable interpretation. The Spell Slinger Feat alone (which is clearly about giving an attack Cantrip to anyone who wants it) invalidates any idea that cantrips have some kind of floaty "caster level" which is separate from character level.

I think you are referencing two different feats here:

• Magic Initiate which makes you a first level caster - gives you cantrips.
• Spell Sniper which requires that you can already cast a spell - gives you a cantrip that requires an attack roll.

Neither of which really answers the question of how to handle cantrips for multiclass casters.

 

[Deltabeoulve]

So now its not clear if cantrips are overall character level along with the invocations? This got a bit more confusing.