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D&D 5E Kind of confused about the staggered releases.

See the thing is not the amount of errors, it's the fact they are blatant errors. Especially the warlock and paladin spell stuff. I mean... this stuff was found within the first DAY. It's not a couple of spelling errors, it's like fundamental stuff. If I had to choose one it would be the quick build warlock error. Quick builds are for newbies, so telling them to pick ray of sickness when it's not on the spell list is a HUGE thing to me. I'd be extremely happy if it was just a couple of spelling errors, but the errors are basically degrading classes by restricting limitations of spells. So defend them all you want, it's still a pretty big deal to me. If it's not a big deal to you, that's awesome, but I'm paying 50$ for a book I expect an extremely small amount of errors or at least ones that aren't so glaring.
We've been clamouring for this book for months; it was inevitable that we'd each rip through it for our favorite bits as soon as we had a chance; between just the people who post on ENWorld, we probably read every word of the Player's Handbook ten times over by August 9th. It was inevitable we'd find any errors immediately.

While I understand your frustration that an error made it into the quick build section of your favorite class, this is one of those situations where you'll have to look inside yourself and ask, "Is this really worth being annoyed about?" You are the decider!
 

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Li Shenron

Legend
Every published book - RPG or otherwise - has errors. You can't fix that. Best you can do it mitigate against errors with more time and resources allocated to editing and proofing.

Honestly I think that's BS. You can totally have an error-free book. It's going to cost you more, but you can.

Is there a compiled list of typos, errors, and omissions anywhere? I don't really want to browse through that whole thread to find them. At a glance, most of them seem to be mis-named spell references and the like.

I'd like to have such list too, it should be easy to build it collectively and post it on ENWorld as a reference for everyone.

One would think, but I'll gladly eat the next 1st print RPG book set in front of me with zero errors.

It's a game book. There are medical and industrial manuals whose accuracy have lives (and lawsuits) depending on them. Errors still get through.

RPG seems to be more prone to errors. I own tons of scientific books, and despite their sheer size the number of mistakes is much lower, and in many cases it's zero.

But clearly, a serious books has factual information, while a game book has fictional information, so sometimes it might even be impossible to say if something in the RPG book is right or wrong, and only the writers know that.

And because it's made-up stuff, it gets re-designed and re-written many times before publications, and there are multiple people working on it (even if splitting up different chapters, they might get related things differently in those 2 places). This highly increases the risks of mistake. Just think about it: they wrote some playtest document 6 months ago, the rules for e.g. mounted combats or hiding are spread to 3-4 different locations, then they playtest and adjust the rules a couple of times, and someone may not remember to update one of those locations...

Another reason is, they are doing verifications on their own written products, which is the easiest way to overlook mistakes. They might have a proofreader or two, but is probably someone focusing on grammar & language stuff, not someone especially knowledged in the rules of the game.

In theory, they had almost 200.000 proofreaders in the last 2 years. However, all the changes in the last 9 months were seen only by a few hundreds/thousands of closed-group testers, which likely focused on testing how the game worked, not the written docs.

Had they shown the rules to those 200000 playtesters before publications, we would have got rid of all the mistakes, but obviously this isn't the best thing to do business-wise. Also it would have needed to be much earlier, to account to all the delays in re-editing and sending to the printers. And it's very likely that if they had 1 more month delay, they would have been tempted to sneak in some more changes, with their relative errors.

Unfortunately this always means that the real proofreading starts when the customers buy the books. If the mistakes are too many, they will be fixed in a future re-print, if they aren't many there will be no updates to future re-prints.

But all this is just to explain why games always have much worse editing than scientific books, not to justify the traditional bad quality of a RPG book. It can be error-free, but between people wanting to have the game asap, designers needing to have it ready to sell it, publishers wanting to minimize cost, and everybody wanting a completely new edition built from scratch every few years, eventually it's damn hard to lower the error rate.

If it's really only 8 mistakes in the whole 5e PHB, it's bordering the miracle...
 


Nikmal

First Post
Every published book - RPG or otherwise - has errors. You can't fix that. Best you can do it mitigate against errors with more time and resources allocated to editing and proofing.



Then imagine how much more errata there would be if they released all three books at once.
Actually it is a typical to release most core rule books in the same month as part of the same release. WotC has done this before (3rd ed and 3.5 and 4E.) So They should be able to do it again. Mitigating the errors is not an excuse and to say that is one though. The errors that WotC typically has in a book is due to poor editing on their end. Mitigation is not an excuse on their end at all.
 

Ravenheart87

Explorer
Actually it is a typical to release most core rule books in the same month as part of the same release. WotC has done this before (3rd ed and 3.5 and 4E.)
Actually 3e had a staggered release, there was a month between PHB, MM and DMG. 3.5 doesn't count, it was a revised version of 3e, not the 1st printing of a new edition. And 4e core books were indeed released at once, and they had an awful lot of errors. So none of your examples is good to prove your point.
 

fjw70

Adventurer
I would MUCH rather they release the books one at a time than waiting until all three are ready. Instead of having to wait until November my group is getting together tonight with my shining new PH to make characters for our new campaign.
 

Nikmal

First Post
We've been clamouring for this book for months; it was inevitable that we'd each rip through it for our favorite bits as soon as we had a chance; between just the people who post on ENWorld, we probably read every word of the Player's Handbook ten times over by August 9th. It was inevitable we'd find any errors immediately.

While I understand your frustration that an error made it into the quick build section of your favorite class, this is one of those situations where you'll have to look inside yourself and ask, "Is this really worth being annoyed about?" You are the decider!
Asking if this is something to be annoyed about is something that would upset me. It would be like asking if when I ordered fries with my Cheeseburger and getting pickles instead and saying... "is it worth getting annoyed at" Should we bring it to attention of the company? YES!! We paid for something. We should get our monies worth too. If it is a rules breaking error it should be both pointed out and dealt with! Saying is it worth getting annoyed about would just add fule to the fire in my opinion and should be avoided.
 

wedgeski

Adventurer
It's funny but the staggered schedule has really put me back in mind of the 3E release. I enjoyed buying the 4E collected set and spending a week immersed in the new rules, but staggering the books like this generates a lot more buzz in the community and extends the "new and shiny!" window quite dramatically. It was the right move, I think.
 

Nikmal

First Post
Actually 3e had a staggered release, there was a month between PHB, MM and DMG. 3.5 doesn't count, it was a revised version of 3e, not the 1st printing of a new edition. And 4e core books were indeed released at once, and they had an awful lot of errors. So none of your examples is good to prove your point.

Actually Ravenheart, 3.0 was released in the SAME Month. Aug 2000 AT Gen Con. I was there that year when it was. I bought the books as well. Yes they were full of errors and I did not use them to say that they were not full of errors, but that it is not an excuse that having a staggered release, that they will limit the errors, it very well could but in it's history RPG core books typically release in the same month. 4E did as well and again it was full of errors. But again this is all due to their proofing the books enough ahead of time. Will any game book be without errors probably never but it should never be so glaring as the past two editions were and looks like we might be getting the same problems.

So one can't be blamed for being upset.
 

Nikmal

First Post
I would MUCH rather they release the books one at a time than waiting until all three are ready. Instead of having to wait until November my group is getting together tonight with my shining new PH to make characters for our new campaign.
FJW, If they had planned it correctly we would not have had to wait for all 3 of them, which they could easily have done. This is more of a marketing ploy on their end (I believe) and they are hoping to build up anticipation. The books are already at the printers I am sure and being printed already. If they are STILL editing and revising the rules for the DMG it is to late in the game and they are bound to make some mistakes.
 

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