D&D 5E Kind of confused about the staggered releases.

[Agamon]

But I disagree that asking for zero is asking too much. If an attentive player can find a few mistakes in one readthrough, why do they still exist?

One would think, but I'll gladly eat the next 1st print RPG book set in front of me with zero errors.

 

[Remathilis]

Most of those errata are either typo goofs or misnaming; that's a lot better than 4e's errata (or hell, 2e: the first print of the black-covered PHB forgot Regenerate in the spell section!)

The only one I question is whether Trap the Soul was removed (but not taken off the spell list) or forgotten like the aforementioned Regenerate? I've heard its included now with Imprisonment and not a separate spell. Anyone with the PHB wanna check it out?

 

[Haffrung]

But I disagree that asking for zero is asking too much. If an attentive player can find a few mistakes in one readthrough, why do they still exist?

Have you ever edited or proofed a large document? The original author goes over the doc. Then a subject matter expert or editor will go over the doc again. Then one or more proofers will go over the doc yet again. And yet there are always errors. And that's isn't confined to the RPG industry. Pick up any technical manual or textbook and you'll see the same thing.

Fact is, there's a law of diminishing returns with proofing. 10 hours of proofing will catch 90 per cent of errors. Another 10 hours and you're at 95 per cent. Another 10 hours and you'll catch 98 per cent. Another 10 hours and you're at 99 per cent. Do you spend another 10 hours to reach 99.3 per cent? And another 10 after that to get to 99.5 per cent?

 

[Agamon]

Yeah, if anyone here thinks they can be the proofer that let's nothing get past them, they should apply for a job. You'd be in high demand!

 

[evilbob]

Fact is, there's a law of diminishing returns with proofing. 10 hours of proofing will catch 90 per cent of errors. Another 10 hours and you're at 95 per cent. Another 10 hours and you'll catch 98 per cent. Another 10 hours and you're at 99 per cent. Do you spend another 10 hours to reach 99.3 per cent? And another 10 after that to get to 99.5 per cent?

I'm not disagreeing that it is difficult. But that's why you hire copy editors and pay them. That's why you spend money on a book that will sell a bunch of copies. It's also why they paid artists who were good instead of putting stick figures on every page. It's just way more professional.

If they spent 50 hours and caught 99.5% of errors and could spend 10 more and get it to 99.7, then of course that is worth it. This is an extremely technical manual that will be poured over millions of times. It's worth getting it right, and even 50 extra hours isn't anything in the overall cost of the production of this book.

All that is my opinion of course - just wanted to restate that.

 

[Haffrung]

This is an extremely technical manual that will be poured over millions of times. It's worth getting it right, and even 50 extra hours isn't anything in the overall cost of the production of this book.

It's a game book. There are medical and industrial manuals whose accuracy have lives (and lawsuits) depending on them. Errors still get through.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Let's talk numbers. Hypothetically, we have a 300 page game book.

A "standard" manuscript page is considered 250 words. That means, from my own experience with Wizards, one page in a game book averages to three "standard pages."

So we're starting with a figure of 900.

This a very technical book, so we'll put it at the bottom of the "standard" range for proofreading. (We're calling it proofing because we're talking about a late, "find lingering errors" pass; it'd probably be heavy copyediting or developmental editing earlier in the process.

Which puts the rate at 9 manuscript pages per hour.

We're not talking about a ten-hour process, but a hundred-hour process. (And before you tell me that's ridiculous, try reading a book like the PHB looking at every word for errors.)

Proofreading at that size is likely to cost you about $35 per hour.

$3,500 may not sound like a lot, but it actually is a measurable chunk of the cost of production. More to the point, it's $3,500 being spent to reduce the typo rate by, in the examples being discussed here, a fraction of a percent.

It's not worth it from a monetary standpoint. A .3% reduction in typos is not going to bring in extra sales--certainly not $3,500-worth.

(All rates/figures estimated via the Editorial Freelancers Association.)

 

[Henry]

The true amusement for me is the sheer number of people who complain about typos, yet have numerous spelling mistakes of their own RIGHT IN THE FORUM POST THEY MAKE. "Attrocius", indeed.

 

[Evenglare]

See the thing is not the amount of errors, it's the fact they are blatant errors. Especially the warlock and paladin spell stuff. I mean... this stuff was found within the first DAY. It's not a couple of spelling errors, it's like fundamental stuff. If I had to choose one it would be the quick build warlock error. Quick builds are for newbies, so telling them to pick ray of sickness when it's not on the spell list is a HUGE thing to me. I'd be extremely happy if it was just a couple of spelling errors, but the errors are basically degrading classes by restricting limitations of spells. So defend them all you want, it's still a pretty big deal to me. If it's not a big deal to you, that's awesome, but I'm paying 50$ for a book I expect an extremely small amount of errors or at least ones that aren't so glaring.

 

[Grazzt]

The only one I question is whether Trap the Soul was removed (but not taken off the spell list) or forgotten like the aforementioned Regenerate? I've heard its included now with Imprisonment and not a separate spell. Anyone with the PHB wanna check it out?

Might be. Imprisonment gives several options for trapping the target. The classic deep beneath the earth, chaining, hedged prison, slumber, and minimus containment. The last one seems closest to Trap the Soul in that it traps the target inside a gemstone. However, the target shrinks and is trapped. Says nothing about the lifeforce or soul.