D&D 5E 5th edition stat-block concern: Saving throws

[KarinsDad]

I have to side with the people who do not think that this is a big deal.


For one thing, saves are a bit rare. The vast majority of attacks against NPCs/monsters are via attacks with attack dice. This includes the majority of cantrips. AC is probably used 6 or 8 or more times for every one time a saving throw is made.

Second, it takes very little time to get the answer out of the stat block and then glance down to see if there is a better save on the Saving Throw line which is always the first line below.


At most, one second 2 or 3 times per combat. In a 10 to 20 minute combat, that's white noise. A lot more time is wasted on many other ways.

There is a ton of other pertinent info that the DM does need to know (like resist, etc.) that takes more effort and requires the DM to look at more than once per encounter than saves.

 

[DaveMage]

Maybe the most elegant solution is to put an asterisk or other symbol (maybe a superscript "s") by the ability score/modifier to indicate that the save is different.

 

[the Jester]

Also, I realize this is the Internet, but how about dialing back the grar a tad?

It's more significant than half a second's work, and I think you're being excessively aggressive in dismissing it (You may say "You should know!", "Takes one to know one!", PKB, etc. etc.! ).

My apologies, I hadn't intended to sound so snarky.

Nonetheless, I really don't think this is a big deal. Which isn't to say that it isn't a deal to some folks. But in practical terms, I'm really baffled by the notion that looking one line away in a stat block is all that much added difficulty, time or whatever. Obviously, YMMV, but for me, it just isn't an issue. Shrug.

 

[Agamon]

Lets keep the snark down to a minimum people.

--Stalker0

 

[SkidAce]

I think if you actually try and use the stat blocks, you may find it's kind of annoying.

If it's causing anyone to notice the issue, frankly, it's showing there's a usability issue. Like I said though, a lot of people, especially those not actually running RPGs (which, to be honest, appears to be most people here), rate stuff like compression higher than usability, and that's a matter of taste and what you're using the information for.

Where do you get this impression from?

Not agreeing with you doesn't mean I'm not running the game...

...nor does asking this question mean I'm offended...just curious.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Where do you get this impression from?

Not agreeing with you doesn't mean I'm not running the game...

...nor does asking this question mean I'm offended...just curious.

It's a pretty vague impression from the large number of people who never seem to refer to recently run games, or only to playing or the like. Also, last time I saw a survey of who was running stuff, seemed like a lot of people weren't. That obv. doesn't mean they suck or whatever, but different usage patterns etc...

 

[Stalker0]

So, we have an edition now that seems to be much faster than 3e and 4e, and now people complain about that it takes an extra second to take a look at the next line in the stat block?

Just because something is faster...doesn't mean it can't be "more faster".

I will echo the OPs concern, I think the current system is a clunky way to do it. No reason that you can't just put all of the saves for each monster on one line...makes it uber simple.


Now...is this a major problem? Probably not for most people. Is it an area that could have been improved? I think so.

 

[Stalker0]

At most, one second 2 or 3 times per combat. In a 10 to 20 minute combat, that's white noise. A lot more time is wasted on many other ways.

To me...the question here isn't the time spent, it is the mental impact to the DM.

During a busy combat, DMs are....very busy! You are tracking 5-10 monsters, adjudicating effects, looking up spells, recording damage, maybe you have some terrain effects, etc etc.

I can say that when I run combats like that...it is easy to forget the small things. Little bonuses here and there, etc.


So, does looking for save bonuses in multiple places have a mental impact? I think it does. In fact more likely than not what would happen to me is I get used to look at ability scores for saves...and forget about the save bonuses entirely.

Once again I will state...is this a BIG deal? Probably not...but I do agree it could have been done even better.

 

[Rod Staffwand]

I'm in agreement with the OP. It's not a time issue for me as much as an ease-of-use issue. It's too easy to miss checking the save modifier line if its appearance is occasional at best.

I understand the need to streamline and save space but, at the same time, they felt the need to load everyone down with 6 saves. 4E's AC + NADs array or 13th Age's AC, PD and MD array are more streamlined and more functional. 5E just seems clunky by comparison.

Also, red dragons don't add proficiency to their Strength saves? Come on, now!

 

[Agamon]

Once again I will state...is this a BIG deal? Probably not...but I do agree it could have been done even better.

There is a balance to be struck, though. The more info, the bigger the statblock, the more time it takes to navigate and the more space it takes. And seeing how it's redundant information, it makes sense to leave it out to keep the block as slim as possible.