D&D (2024) Creature Stat Blocks in 2024 Player's Handbook

[zottel]

Right, so aesthetic preference. Which is perfectly fine, it’s just not an issue of stat block size.

If usability is aesthetics for you, sure, I guess.
Reducing it to aesthetic preference and stat block size is a false dichotomy, though.

 

[AnotherGuy]

Oh man, DDB saves me so much time compared to when I did it all by hand. I don’t think I could ever go back to how I was doing it before.

I find that I'm designing more and more my own monsters now according to various Monster Manuals (2e-5e editions, 3rd party supplements and online ideas by the fandom). I'm also DMing for characters that are 15th-16th level so I find the standard monsters are just generally incredibly weak for that level.
But for that I use homebrewery or excel to note the differences.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I think that all they need to do is to not put anything in the "save" space if it is the same as the check.

 

[Charlaquin]

If usability is aesthetics for you, sure, I guess.

Including the monsters saves in the stat block makes it more usable, not less. If you dislike the visual clutter, that’s an aesthetic preference.

Reducing it to aesthetic preference and stat block size is a false dichotomy, though.

I’m not reducing it to such a dichotomy. People were claiming stat block size as the reason for disliking saves being included, and that’s just not a valid argument. It doesn’t increase stat block size. There are plenty of valid reasons not to like saves being in the stat block, and aesthetic preference is one of them.

 

[bedir than]

Well, I don't play WotC's version of 5e, and DDB's not much good for anything else.

So their creature design and layout isn't relevant to you whether it's in a book or on Beyond

 

[Micah Sweet]

So their creature design and layout isn't relevant to you whether it's in a book or on Beyond

Not really. I prefer Level Up's creature design to WotC's (especially the MMotM and forward design), and I already have from 5.0 and DMsGuild all the IP-specific monsters I want from WotC's game.

 

[zottel]

Including the monsters saves in the stat block makes it more usable, not less. If you dislike the visual clutter, that’s an aesthetic preference.

As there is no new information added, I don't see how it is more usable in a meaningful way. And you can call my dislike of visual clutter an aesthetic preference if you wish, but it slows down lookups, making the stat block less usable for me.
Look, I won't argue with you any further. If it helps you, great! And obviously the designers from WotC agree with you, so who am I to disagree?

I’m not reducing it to such a dichotomy. People were claiming stat block size as the reason for disliking saves being included, and that’s just not a valid argument. It doesn’t increase stat block size. There are plenty of valid reasons not to like saves being in the stat block, and aesthetic preference is one of them.

I've argued that the intent behind smaller stat blocks is an increase in usability via faster access to relevant information. Your insistence on reducing the argument to a matter of style preference indicates to me that you are either unable or unwilling to consider my point, making further discussion pointless for me.
Hope you have a nice day.

 

[Charlaquin]

As there is no new information added, I don't see how it is more usable in a meaningful way.

Putting a monster’s saving throw bonus in the stat block doesn’t add more information than not putting it there…? I must be misunderstanding you.

And you can call my dislike of visual clutter an aesthetic preference if you wish, but it slows down lookups, making the stat block less usable for me.
Look, I won't argue with you any further. If it helps you, great! And obviously the designers from WotC agree with you, so who am I to disagree?

That’s a different argument than the page space one, which is the one I was refuting. I don’t see how having the save bonus next to the ability mod slows down lookups, but I’d be willing to consider the possibility that they could. I haven’t heard an argument for such a claim.

I've argued that the intent behind smaller stat blocks is an increase in usability via faster access to relevant information. Your insistence on reducing the argument to a matter of style preference indicates to me that you are either unable or unwilling to consider my point, making further discussion pointless for me.

Hope you have a nice day.

I think your framing of this as a matter of smaller stat blocks may be obfuscating your actual argument here. Including the saves doesn’t make the stat block bigger, and in fact, this layout makes the stat block smaller than it was in 2014 while containing the same information content, so I would think it would be a win for the smaller-stat block crowd (which I would count myself as one of, and indeed I do see it as a win). But you seem to be arguing for something other than size. But, like, what is that something?

 

[GreatestHonor]

I get it, but what tended to happen too much is DMs flat out forgot to apply the advantage at all so in a practical sense the wolves had no boosted senses whatsoever. That's at least the impetus for the change. I'm not declaring anyone has to like it.

Ok. The change is more understandable in that case. I’m all for making the game easier to run, especially for GMs. Still not for me of course

 

[deadman1204]

im glad they removed all attacks that also require a save. Those were so worthless