D&D 5E 5e as an universal gaming engine ?

[Aloïsius]

I have not been able to play 5e until now, so I'm not sure about it... But, knowing that 5e is all about a robust, lightweight core and optional modules, it would make sense to imagine modules that would morph D&D 5 into something else.
For example, what about an "Ars Magica" module or a "L5R" module ?

Back in the 3e days, some games received the "dungeonification" treatment, like L5R (causing, of course, fan uproars and internet wars...). I wonder if WotC had this in mind. And I wonder if it would be easier with the new system and its flexibility to recreate the "feel" of other games.

 

[Tony Vargas]

No, not even close. Even d20, which is a fair core system much aided by being open-source, isn't a great universal 'game engine.'

Hero, GURPS, FATE (or FUDGE), even the venerable Basic Roleplaying from Chaosium are all much better candidates. They're at least trying.

5e's very focused on feeling like classic D&D, and, while plenty of us did make the effort to adapt old-school D&D's early system to other genres and the like, it was never well-suited for it.

 

[Li Shenron]

Really hard to say...

One property of 5e that might work in its favor is that the rules are not as strongly "interconnected" as in previous two editions, in the sense that you can remove or replace stuff (at least some) from the game without having too many consequences on other areas.

Then it all depends on what defines the "feel" for other systems/settings. I am myself working on a 5e conversion of Rokugan/L5R and I think it's not difficult, BUT since my experience with that setting comes from actually its 3e/d20 versions, I can't really say I'm doing a faithful conversion of the original L5R feel, because the d20 version had already changed that!

Anyway, something that strongly characterizes 5e IMO is the spellcasting system: we have traditional "stand-alone" spells (rather than rules for making up magical effects on the fly), spell levels, daily slots, scaling spells by slot level, new preparation rules, spells DC vs saving throws, concentration rules, rituals, at-will cantrips which scale by character level... These make up the bulk of rules for spellcasting, but notice that they are anyway class-based rules, so if you want to replicate a system where these features go against the feeling, all you really got to do is replace the PHB/Basic classes with other classes. For example, the Warlock uses a significantly different spellcasting system already, and it supposedly works fine.

Combat rules (initiative rounds, combat actions, attacks, movement, hit points, dis/advantage...) and adventuring rules (ability checks, resting, proficiencies...) are quite generic, so they might in fact provide a good 'universal engine'. Even they are not untouchable however. Resting rules for example are almost by definition totally tweakable.

 

[TrippyHippy]

Let's not go through all that again....

 

[fjw70]

During the development of 5e the designers did mention that they would like to use the 5e engine for other genres and supposedly they had that in mind during the design process.

I don't see why 5e couldn't work for other games.

 

[Tormyr]

From some of the articles on Wizards site earlier this year, I got the feeling they were going to include enough information in the DMG to make 5e work as a replacement for d20 modern and d20 future.

 

[exile]

I would love for GI Joe and Transformers to get the 5E treatment.

I would love for Pathfinder to get a 'kitchen sink' sci-fi setting.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I have not been able to play 5e until now, so I'm not sure about it... But, knowing that 5e is all about a robust, lightweight core and optional modules, it would make sense to imagine modules that would morph D&D 5 into something else.
For example, what about an "Ars Magica" module or a "L5R" module ?

Back in the 3e days, some games received the "dungeonification" treatment, like L5R (causing, of course, fan uproars and internet wars...). I wonder if WotC had this in mind. And I wonder if it would be easier with the new system and its flexibility to recreate the "feel" of other games.

I think the DMG will help us see what is possible there.

The 5e presented to us so far is simply D&D -- dungeons, monsters, wizards, warriors, entirely it's own genre D&D.

But the underlying mechanics may not be so "D&D."

Lets take, say, Call of Cthulu as a baseline. 3e did a CoC d20, but it didn't show the flexibility of 3e as much as it showed the limitations of the game. Levels? Hit Points? Crits? A CR for Cthulu? Clearly these mechanics were suited to heroic fantasy, but they don't apply to semi-modern investigative horror. Many of 5e's mechanics (including levels, hit points, crits, Challenge, but also things like bounded accuracy) are similarly unsuitable.

But then you can probably make a 5e hack without those things, and introduce new concepts and mechanics to cover elements of investigative horror, and keep the same basic pacing in place. Like, if I were to take 4e (D&D's most flexible so far) and crudely apply it to that genre, I'd probably treat mysteries as monsters and HP as sanity and attack rolls as looking for clues and healing surges as visits to your psychiatrist, etc. So on a strong enough math chassis, there's certainly the possibility for creative flexibility that leads to different experiences. Instead of goblins killing you with swords, you have a mystery that is driving you slowly insane, but a lot of the numbers and rolls remain the same.

So the hinge here is in how flexible the underlying maths of 5e are, combined with how much an individual designer would be creative in re-interpreting them for a new genre. A designer that just thoughtlessly leaves in a mechanic like levels or hit points, or a game that can't abide a manipulation of those things, is not going to be flexible enough to deliver a satisfying experience in multiple different genrea.

Which is probably still fine, if that's the case, though I'd be sad at that loss of flexibility from 4e.

 

[AngryMojo]

I don't think it's possible to have a truly universal game engine. If the mechanics of a given game are supposed to support storytelling or simulate the conventions of a genre, the only way a system could be universal is if it worked with every type of storytelling and supported the conventions of every genre. Considering that many of these types and conventions contradict each other, I doubt it can be done. I love plenty of other systems, but all of the generic games I've found still support a specific type of gaming experience and tone. BRP works great for straightforward games or the investigative horror it came from, but it tends to fall short if you want pulp-cinematic action. Savage Worlds does great if you're Indiana Jones, very poorly if you're joe shmoe studying a cult to stop Azathoth from being summoned. Both these games have elements of their supported genres hardwired into the system.

It's a noble goal, but I just don't think it can be done. Especially D&D, of any edition with its hit points and roots in epic superhero-style fantasy, feels very out of place in another context without modification so heavy it ceases to be D&D in any recognizable form. I'd love to be proven wrong. I don't think I will.

 

[Jeff Carlsen]

I certainly wouldn't like 5E as a universal system (I'll stick with Savage Worlds for that), but there is some room for it to be used for other fantastical settings.