D&D 5E First Session of HotDQ - WOW, what a meatgrinder

[MonsterEnvy]

I went a different tack with Cyanwrath. I played up his lawfulness and fair-play, by making him more a "slave to honor" than anything else. I like all my villains to have at least one admirable quality so they are less cartoonish and more 3-dimensional.

Indeed I like the Honorable aspect to Cyanwrath. Though I like his rival aka the guy he fought to survive as well.

 

[Parmandur]

Maybe it was the way I ran it, but the party of five I ran this for went through the Kobolds and Cultists like a hot knife through butter!

 

[aramis erak]

Maybe it was the way I ran it, but the party of five I ran this for went through the Kobolds and Cultists like a hot knife through butter!

I was running it for Encounters... and, to be blunt, only when players got careless was it really all that dangerous.

Now, a crit by Cyanwrath could kill a level 1 PC outright. Not likely, unless they're ground down already. But in the fight with Cyanwrath, the 2nd level paladin (a fellow GM's PC) was taken out in one swing... He entered the fight injured, lost initiative, and I critted on the first roll... Whack-thump.

 

[Quartz]

Now, a crit by Cyanwrath could kill a level 1 PC outright.

One of my house rules for 3E was that only a masterwork weapon could crit. It cut down the accidental lethality.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Took us a while to realize that we're no longer playing in a world that is perfectly scaled to our level. We're now approaching potential threats much more (dare I say it) 'realistically'.

Hahaha, this delights me. Put the fear of death in 'em!

 

[Desalus]

Last night in our Encounters game a brand new player, during our very first 'encounter' of the night, volunteered to fight Cyanwrath (he interrupted my attempt to goad Cyanwrath into challenging our entire party). His character went down in one hit (12 damage) and then on the death saving throw he proceeded to roll not one but two critical failures thus ending his character's life! His first time playing 5e, his very first encounter, and his character died after being attacked exactly one time. We all had a good laugh at his misfortune . Sadly it just goes to show how this encounter with Cyanwrath is just poor design on Kobold Press' part. The whole Greenest in Flames chapter was pretty poor IMHO (it definitely is a meat-grinder).

 

[Sacrosanct]

Last night in our Encounters game a brand new player, during our very first 'encounter' of the night, volunteered to fight Cyanwrath (he interrupted my attempt to goad Cyanwrath into challenging our entire party). His character went down in one hit (12 damage) and then on the death saving throw he proceeded to roll not one but two critical failures thus ending his character's life! His first time playing 5e, his very first encounter, and his character died after being attacked exactly one time. We all had a good laugh at his misfortune . Sadly it just goes to show how this encounter with Cyanwrath is just poor design on Kobold Press' part. The whole Greenest in Flames chapter was pretty poor IMHO (it definitely is a meat-grinder).

Did you start at the keep? Did you not have any encounters on the way there?


Also, sorry about your friend, but I don't think it's bad design necessarily when you end up with something that has astronomical odds of happening (getting hit for total hp followed by 2ea 1's). That's just extremely unlucky rolls.

 

[pepticburrito]

In every fight, at least one person went down. In every other fight, at least TWO people went down.

My players chewed threw everything with little problems. When they asked Governor Nighthill for some heal potions, he sent them to the Red Headed Dwarf. He in turn sent them to the ready room for the sally port, where I rolled a d4 to determine the number of heal potions. They got two, that's it.

The difference is, I interpreted what was happening in the city different than the reports I'm seeing from other tables. HoTDQ specifically says that the Kobolds could mistake the adventurers for mercenaries. Which meant that until the raiders understood there were adventurers to deal with, they were mistaken for mercenaries.

Once the players realized that Kobolds were brutal in packs, they stopped letting the Kobolds gang up on them. They used their growing Kobold dagger collection (they are proficient simple weapons) to strike first at range. Once the Kobolds were thinned some, they would let the Kobolds approach. Since the players weren't grouped up, they couldn't be surrounded.

It also helped that the two rogues in the party would make a point trying to strike first from a hidden location. When they came out of the tunnel the first time, the rogues absolutely destroyed the cultists with a thrown sneak attack daggers (unseen attacker). At that point, the Kobolds were just a formality.

 

[Desalus]

Did you start at the keep? Did you not have any encounters on the way there?


Also, sorry about your friend, but I don't think it's bad design necessarily when you end up with something that has astronomical odds of happening (getting hit for total hp followed by 2ea 1's). That's just extremely unlucky rolls.

We were five sessions into Encounters and a few new people showed up. They started off where we ended the previous session.

The reason why I say it's bad design is that there is an incredibly small chance a level 1 or 2 character can win the 'duel' with Cyanwrath because he's just way overpowered in comparison. As has been previously stated, Cyanwrath could kill a character in one hit if rolled a critical hit with high damage. Even in the unlikely situation that Cyanwrath is defeated, his goons rush in to carry him off. Also if the party decided to outright attack the 15 kobolds + Cyanwrath it would result in a TPK. It's a situation that players are bound to lose no matter which way they approach it (unless the DM changes the encounter).

On top of that the reason given for Cyanwrath to challenge the players is just plain stupid and doesn't add any depth to the story ("I'm bored! Give me a good fight!"). Cyanwrath gives no reason for the players to trust him beyond "You can trust me. I am honorable!" (he just butchered an entire village so why would anyone trust his word?). It just boils down to an enormously unbalanced, shallow, and unbelievable encounter.

 

[Tony Vargas]

The /point/ of the Cyanwrath encounter is for him to drop a PC. He shows he's a bad-ass, and the PC shows courage. It's the kind of thing you see in fiction all the time. The first confrontation with the bad-guy the hero will defeat in a later grudge-match.

The write-up of the encounter makes it abundantly clear that Cyanwrath is likely to win, and leaves the door open to the PC having a good chance of surviving the experience (down only one death save with healers rushing to his aid). Yes, for a 1st level character a single crit or even an unlucky pair of hits (one that rolls low and doesn't /quite/ drop him, one that rolls high and inflicts his full hps after reaching zero) could well instantly kill.

And, yes 1st level has proven a little problematic in 5e - it'd've been nice if we could've started it at 3rd, for instance, at least as a DM option or non-AL 'casual' play or something...