D&D 5E Magic Item Costs in 5E

[Mouseferatu]

I think [MENTION=29398]Lanefan[/MENTION] and I play in very different sorts of campaigns. (Not that there's anything wrong with that. ) I haven't seen an argument over treasure in years, except in an evil campaign. Most of the time, the players split everything in terms of gold/gems/etc., but magic items are given to whoever can get the most use out of them.

 

[Lanefan]

I think [MENTION=29398]Lanefan[/MENTION] and I play in very different sorts of campaigns. (Not that there's anything wrong with that. ) I haven't seen an argument over treasure in years, except in an evil campaign. Most of the time, the players split everything in terms of gold/gems/etc., but magic items are given to whoever can get the most use out of them.

Where my lot will argue it down almost to the copper piece, mostly because nobody wants to feel like they're not getting the full share they worked for.

We've actually developed a pretty good system over the years for equitable treasury division by value, but it collapses if magic items don't have a hard value attached. And in my game magic can be bought and sold, though it's completely random what might be available to buy at any given time, via the logic I note in my last post.

I had a party once that tried a "draft" system for dividing magic items (and equally split the cash); problem was that one player knew much more than the rest about what items did and what they could be sold/bartered for, and he made off like a bandit. The other players caught on after a couple of adventures. Next adventure went right back to the equal-value system...

Lanefan

 

[Thank Dog]

Where my lot will argue it down almost to the copper piece, mostly because nobody wants to feel like they're not getting the full share they worked for.

I've been in groups like that.

I'm no longer willing to be in groups like that.

 

[Grainger]

A regular country noble wouldn't have much in the way of what we call "cash", no. But owning a handful of villages and a dozen hamlets, i.e. the output of hundreds of people, will add up. I imagine such a noble could easily fund or borrow 1,000 gp.

It depends how feudal your game world is. Early feudal society was very rural, and Lords of the Manor were paid mainly in crops, not in cash (because that's what the peasants produced).

 

[CM]

This is another one of those 5e topics where I am confused by the idea that "less advice is better" mantra.

If item price guidelines are not provided, DMs are left to their own devices and may or may not come up with reasonable values.
If price guidelines are provided, at least those DMs who wish to use them have a baseline to measure against. They are totally free to ignore them, too.

If you can't handle ignoring something that's in a rulebook, you may have a problem.

 

[Chocolategravy]

I don't think that is as much a matter of "can't" but "won't". I can't imagine many nobles, merchants, or temples have use for many magic items PCs find.

Pawn shops have no use for anything they buy except to resell and make money off them. In a dangerous world full of monsters is there demand for literally magic items that can improve your odds of you and your family not dying to those monsters? Uh... yes. Yes there is. The demand for magic items would be so mind boggling it would make Apple jealous. Look at it the other way, if demand was as low as you say, PCs would have no problem buying that useless junk for cheap.

 

[SilverfireSage]

Pawn shops have no use for anything they buy except to resell and make money off them. In a dangerous world full of monsters is there demand for literally magic items that can improve your odds of you and your family not dying to those monsters? Uh... yes. Yes there is. The demand for magic items would be so mind boggling it would make Apple jealous. Look at it the other way, if demand was as low as you say, PCs would have no problem buying that useless junk for cheap.

I don't expect you to respond, since I don't think you care to respond to anyone who refutes your points, but I still want to for some reason.

How often do Noblemen see a monster? Once in their lives? Twice? Never? Sure, the duke might have a use for a magic sword, but it wouldn't be to go out adventuring. It would be to put on a mantle and look at. In fact, he's probably already got one as an heirloom, so what use would he have for another? Maybe he gives his captain a magic item, but there's no way he's going to have a use for them otherwise. 10 men with normal swords are much much much better at combat than 1 with a magic sword.

 

[TwoSix]

The issue with magic item pricing isn't about where you acquire it, whether that be from the altar of a sunken temple or as a gift from a wealthy noble patron. The issue is that magic item acquisition should always be an adventure. The behavior you want to avoid is returning to town with 10,000gp in your pocket, and then all the players open up the magic item book and start making a shopping list.

 

[Fion]

If item price guidelines are not provided, DMs are left to their own devices...

In 5th edition the mantra does indeed appear to be 'It's up to the DM', at least if Mearl's re-tweets on important questions are any indication. If there's one thing I liked about 4e is that it's rules were extremely well codified. If there were questions, the answers were easy to find within the rules. Sure there was some initial confusion (stealth.. seems to come up with every new edition) but even that was fairly rapidly put to bed. I don't mind 'it's up to the DM' but that just means the game will play pretty radically different based on the table, and who determines the 'right' rules at conversion games?

To add to the topic, I've seen on other websites suggestions that magical items have charges to use their 'power'. To take the example on page 3(?) about the flail that can be extended to a reach weapon, what if the weapon had 10 charges. After all the charges were used the wielder rolls a d10 during a long rest while performing some small ritual of sharpening the weapon or oiling it, sprinkling it with herbs or 'smoking' it with incense. On a 1, the weapon's magical energy fades and it becomes a normal weapon. On a 2+ it gains x number of charges, up to 10 again on a lucky roll.

 

[Remathilis]

Pawn shops have no use for anything they buy except to resell and make money off them. In a dangerous world full of monsters is there demand for literally magic items that can improve your odds of you and your family not dying to those monsters? Uh... yes. Yes there is. The demand for magic items would be so mind boggling it would make Apple jealous. Look at it the other way, if demand was as low as you say, PCs would have no problem buying that useless junk for cheap.

Pawn shops only buy things they think they can sell. Watch Pawn Stars for a season; you'll see plenty of things that are valuable that they don't buy because the asking price is far too high to make a profit buying it.

How much is a +1 sword actually worth to an NPC? Using 3.5 era math for an example, 2,315 gp will get you a +1 longsword that nets you a +5% better chance to hit and a 12% more damage per blow. OR, you could buy the services of 30 mercenaries for a year. Which is going to protect your kingdom better?

Well, how about 30 mercenaries buying their own +1 swords? Well, at a standard pay rate of 2 sp per day, it'd take them 31 years of soldiering to buy said sword, assuming he never had to buy any other good or service ever.

Would a noble afford a +1 sword? Sure. He could keep one for personal protection (an heirloom) but he's not going to want part with it unless he's hard up for cash or can get a replacement one. Further, how many nobles are there in a given area that can afford +1 swords? Not enough to mass produce them (and mass production per RAW gives no advantage to creating in bulk, economy of scale doesn't factor here). So a noble might have one, but that is no different that an art market; small, insular, and primarily used as status symbols than the backbone of an economy.

All these things point to market controlled not by fixed price points, but by barter and haggling based on immaterial factors (status, history, rarity, need, or usefulness) vs. a fixed price for a manufactured good. This is not Apple selling an iPhone, this is Christie's auctioning off a Rembrandt.

Which brings me around to the point; an adventurer wandering into town hears the local lord possesses a magical sword. He walks up to the lord and says "I want to buy your magical sword. How much?" The lord shouldn't reply "2,315 gp, market value.", he should say "How much do you got?"