D&D 5E Ghouls still not quite right in MM

[Joe Liker]

Can I also just say I think it's weird that you don't fall prone when paralyzed? Real paralyzed people are not super good at standing up.

 

[Henrix]

Can I also just say I think it's weird that you don't fall prone when paralyzed? Real paralyzed people are not super good at standing up.

Fantasy paralysis hasn't got that much to do with real life paralysis.

The fantasy trope paralysis locks the whole body down, not relaxes.

(Realistically you'd probably keel over anyhow, as we are seldom in perfect balance if we suddenly stop moving. But that's not as evocative.)

 

[KarinsDad]

Can I also just say I think it's weird that you don't fall prone when paralyzed? Real paralyzed people are not super good at standing up.

Easy to house rule. Plus, I don't think most players would have a problem with it since the rule would work against NPCs as well as PCs.

 

[occam]

The "save every round" mechanic is just an utter buzzkill and makes things that should be really-to-heart-stoppingly bad a minor-to-momentary [1 round] inconvenience.

You've been paralyzed by the ghoul...previously indicating that you were helpless as the rest of the ghoulish pack clawed at and piled on to eat you alive. Your companions had to act with some haste and purpose to get/protect/defend you from the ghouls all too ready to pounce upon the first thing that got paralyzed or dispel/heal you of the condition right away.

Now, you've get paralyzed by the ghoul. Your companions can say, "Duuuude. That sucks. Don't worry. It'll wear off next round...maybe two. I'll just keep doing my own thing."

When I get a 5e game going, "saves each round" is sooo getting houseruled right out the window...for anything, not just ghouls. But ghouls is a great example as to why.

In the last game I played, two 1st-level PCs faced one ghoul (the party was split, and the rest were elsewhere fighting zombies), and I can tell you we were pretty damn worried when one of the PCs was paralyzed right off, and it only got worse when he failed his first save. That ghoul could've easily taken out both PCs had the dice gone its way. If we had faced a pack of them? No way, we're out.

The save every round can actually add a lot of tension to the situation; a failed save feels much more distressing than just sitting there being screwed, and it keeps the player somewhat more involved.

 

[Nebulous]

The save every round can actually add a lot of tension to the situation; a failed save feels much more distressing than just sitting there being screwed, and it keeps the player somewhat more involved.

Yeah, it's a very swingy thing totally at the discretion of the dice. It can go from horrific to trivially easy, so I see why some people (myself included originally) wanted to make paralysis last longer. But if you have the poor fortune to roll ones and twos and threes, you're gonna be paralyzed a long time...

It's still something i might fiddle with later, but not now. The PCs haven't met a ghoul pack encounter!

But, after reading this thread, i'm changing something. I'm running the Lost Mine adventure and there's gonna be some ash-ghouls in Thundertree now....

 

[Shadowdweller00]

I think my take on ghoul behavior (and I think I'm generally a not too lethal DM) is that ghouls are not tacticians. They have no fear and will attack any living humanoid they encounter. They will gang up on a weaker or paralyzed target to bring it down but once it is at 0 hp they will only continue to attack it (I.e.feed on it) if the can do so unmolested. Otherwise they will attack the next standing foe. So if you have 4 ghouls vs 4 pcs it is unlikely every one will be paralyzed as the ghouls will attack the weakest target they can and a paralyzed target is obviously weak.

My take on ghouls is pretty much the polar opposite. Ghouls are consummate scavengers. They try to avoid determined, armed resistance and instead tend to skulk about in attempt to ambush stragglers and/or make off with the leavings of other battles. Or tear the throats out of sleeping victims. Their hunger for humanoid life keeps them in relatively close proximity to civilized societies, but they try to keep a low profile so as not to draw unwanted attention. When their constant, gnawing hunger impels them to attack living foes ghouls try to make sure their enemies are outnumbered or otherwise can't effectively fight back. Ghouls don't actually even care for fresh meat when older, more rotten stuff is available though they're happy enough to store bodies until at least they can't stand to wait any longer. Ghouls tend to creep to about places where bodies are buried, where bodies can be hidden so as to properly fester, or dangerous places where bodies are created.

 

[Uller]

Can I also just say I think it's weird that you don't fall prone when paralyzed? Real paralyzed people are not super good at standing up.

I've always looked at paralysis from a ghoul to be more fear based...you're frozen with fright and unable to defend yourself. Of course then it should be a wisdom save which I've house ruled it to be in earlier editions. I probably won't do this in 5e...characters most likely to get hit by a ghoul usually have better CON than WIS so switching it might make them tougher. Leaving things RAW as much as I can for now.

 

[Nebulous]

I've always looked at paralysis from a ghoul to be more fear based...you're frozen with fright and unable to defend yourself. Of course then it should be a wisdom save which I've house ruled it to be in earlier editions. I probably won't do this in 5e...characters most likely to get hit by a ghoul usually have better CON than WIS so switching it might make them tougher. Leaving things RAW as much as I can for now.

Given the kind of stuff adventurer's see on a daily basis, i imagine they'd be frozen in fear quite a lot!

 

[Uller]

But, after reading this thread, i'm changing something. I'm running the Lost Mine adventure and there's gonna be some ash-ghouls in Thundertree now....

That's actually where this has come up for me. I'm starting Lost Mines tonight but we're starting at level 3 so I'm beefing things up just a bit and tying in some hooks to other adventures, one being a cult of undeath that the Redbrands are part of (hence the use of some ghouls)

 

[Nebulous]

Yes, i look forward to seeing how this pans out. I explained in an email to the players already how Crits and death and dying rules work, just to make it clear. Having ghoul paralysis layered on top of that is just particularly nasty. In a "this cheers my DM heart" kind of way.