D&D 5E Uncanny Dodge (Rogue)

[Ilbranteloth]

What? He did say what I wrote. I quoted his tweets exactly. He may have said something at some other time, but since you have no quotes just your memory to back it up, I think I'm on more solid ground.

Tweets are dated September 11, 2014 at 11:56 PM. and September 12, 2014 at 12:24 AM. I'm looking at them right now with my own two eyes.

You can go here and look for yourself. http://thesageadvice.wordpress.com/tag/sneak/

I'd say that the second statement from Mike "But 1/turn would make it usable w/off turn attacks" does indicate that he thinks it's possible, even though it contradicts his first statement.

Ilbranteloth

 

[Ilbranteloth]

The primary bolt is targeted too. Evasion pretty specifically says it is for area effects. I agree that the designers probably intended it to be as the crunchy bit says and is for any effect that allows a dex save for half. But then they added that bit of color at the beginning. My point is, it's pretty easy to get off the rails when you limit your decisions as a DM to rules text and not to the plain meaning of words.

It actually says both: "dodge out of the way of certain area effects" in the first sentence, then in the next sentence drops the word "area" and just states "an effect that allows you to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage"

I'd be OK with any effect that allows you a Dex save for half damage.

Ilbranteloth

 

[Ilbranteloth]

Again (we're having a repeat debate here now), the sentence starts with "If there's ever any question whether something you're doing counts as an attack..." and I think there is no question that a dragonborn breathing fire on you is an attack, so given there is no question you don't move on to the secondary rule. It's obviously an attack, it's labelled as an attack in the description, it uses the attack action, it's blatantly an attack.

Yes, they are all attacks. But the fact that there is a special ability specifically regarding attacks that grant you a saving throw (that also kicks in at a higher level) indicates (at least to me) that the intent was different for different types of attack.

You could interpret Uncanny Dodge as only affecting targeted attacks, but you can just as easily interpret it to cover any attack against you, targeted or area. If that's the way your group wants to interpret it, I think that's fine, and since it can only be used once per round it's probably not going to break anything. But I agree with the interpretation that it is effective against attacks that are made with an attack roll, rather than those that require a saving throw instead.

Neither Uncanny Dodge nor Evasion are effective against spells that don't require an attack roll or a saving throw.

And I'm not sure what the point of noting that the word Dragon is in the title of the game. So is 'Dungeons' and 'and' and that doesn't mean that they attack.

Ilbranteloth

PS - does a 7th level rogue take half damage or no damage to his feelings from a verbal attack?

 

[Celtavian]

I concede the point about Rogue Sneak attacks. I read the rule, figured you could take one per turn and thus could do it on someone else's turn, read the tweets, changed my mind, read the thread you referenced, and changed my mind back.

You can bonus action whenever, right? So you could in theory get three sneak attacks a round?

Nope. Only on your turn. That is why the Delay action uses a Reaction rather than any other type of action. The rules are nicely written so that you can only get two sneak attacks a round. One on your turn with your action or bonus action, one on another turn with a reaction. I think it is the reason why they made Sneak Attack once per turn. Keeps it in check while giving the rogue an option for spiking his damage in a turn.

 

[Celtavian]

Assuming the caster is also properly made, his Dex and all but 2 of his proficiency bonus is negated by the save calculation. That gives him a 60% of passing the check.

Properly built? You mean taking Resilient a few times? I was planning to take Resilient once for Con saves because getting turned to stone and poisoned sucks. Maybe I should take Dex as well as Dex saves can do a lot of damage. It's hard to have a protection from energy spell up while casting other spells.

 

[pepticburrito]

Properly built? You mean taking Resilient a few times? I was planning to take Resilient once for Con saves because getting turned to stone and poisoned sucks. Maybe I should take Dex as well as Dex saves can do a lot of damage. It's hard to have a protection from energy spell up while casting other spells.

You can only take a feat once unless it says otherwise in the feat description. Page 165 PHB, second paragraph under feats. You can only take Resilient once.

 

[Celtavian]

You can only take a feat once unless it says otherwise in the feat description. Page 165 PHB, second paragraph under feats. You can only take Resilient once.

Would you take Resilient Dex over Con? Poison and Petrification seem worse than damage. How else would you build for a wizard to get a high Dex save? There is nothing else that gives it. You don't get the saves when you multi-class. You would get your Dex. How would you boost your save versus disintegrate as a wizard? You said a wizard can get up to a 60% success chance against a higher level disintegrate. Yet save DCs reach 15 to 19 fairly quickly. My wizard has a 14 dex. He only has a +2 Dex save and a 35% chance of success on a Dex save versus my current DC 15 unless a bless is active.

If I boost Dex, do I have a low Con save?

 

[pepticburrito]

Would you take Resilient Dex over Con? Poison and Petrification seem worse than damage. How else would you build for a wizard to get a high Dex save? There is nothing else that gives it. You don't get the saves when you multi-class. You would get your Dex. How would you boost your save versus disintegrate as a wizard? You said a wizard can get up to a 60% success chance against a higher level disintegrate. Yet save DCs reach 15 to 19 fairly quickly. My wizard has a 14 dex. He only has a +2 Dex save and a 35% chance of success on a Dex save versus my current DC 15 unless a bless is active.

If I boost Dex, do I have a low Con save?

I make characters for my roleplaying, not min/maxed stat blocks. It's why I switched to 5e and convinced my group to move with me. I don't think of the game in those terms exactly. I spend far more time thinking about character motivations and desires than I do about how to get the most power out a character sheet. If I wanted to make min/maxed stat blocks, I'd still be GMing Pathfinder.

Wizards are just fine without any feats at all. Increase your ability points for dex or int, because the bounded accuracy assumes you're going to do that as you level.

 

[Celtavian]

I make characters for my roleplaying, not min/maxed stat blocks. It's why I switched to 5e and convinced my group to move with me. I don't think of the game in those terms exactly. I spend far more time thinking about character motivations and desires than I do about how to get the most power out a character sheet. If I wanted to make min/maxed stat blocks, I'd still be GMing Pathfinder.

Wizards are just fine without any feats at all. Increase your ability points for dex or int, because the bounded accuracy assumes you're going to do that as you level.

There are other feats that will be more helpful than ability bonuses. Proficiency on a single save is extremely powerful.

I see now you were commenting on probability rolls and the wizard's proficiency bonus canceling the rogue's proficiency bonus which happens with the stat as well creating a 65% chance of success since meeting the number is all that is necessary for a successful save. It reduces the save to 8. 7 or less and you fail. 25% chance of failure, 65% chance of success.

Here I thought you were providing some rules insight in building a character. Then again this is 5E, building a character is as straight-forward as it gets.