D&D 5E Low Level Wizards Really Do Suck in 5E

[Geeknamese]

Inside the Fog Cloud, the mooks are at disadvantage to hit the PCs because they cannot see them. However, the PCs cannot see the mooks either, so the chances to hit a blind creature has advantage. Advantage and disadvantage cancel out. Why cast the spell? It does nothing in this scenario other than allowing the spell casters to cast "to hit" spells without disadvantage.

Another example, again, the wizard casts it to protect the PCs. Enemy archers try to attack from outside. Again, advantage and disadvantage cancel out, at least on round one where the NPCs knew which squares the PCs were in.

As a DM, I would say that attacks against Blinded creatures only gain Advantage if the attacker can see themselves. If both of you are in a Fog Cloud and neither could see, you're both at Disadvantage on attacks in my game. For me, it's pretty clear that that was the intention of the Blinded condition - for the attacker that has an advantage to receive an advantage on the roll.

 

[KarinsDad]

As a DM, I would say that attacks against Blinded creatures only gain Advantage if the attacker can see themselves. If both of you are in a Fog Cloud and neither could see, you're both at Disadvantage on attacks in my game. For me, it's pretty clear that that was the intention of the Blinded condition - for the attacker that has an advantage to receive an advantage on the roll.

I do not disagree. Our DM made this same ruling. I was just stating how RAW works.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Me: "I cast Fog Cloud around us to protect the other PCs."
DM: "It doesn't help. The enemies knew which hexes the PCs were in and the spell doesn't affect their to hit at all. Advantage cancels out disadvantage. And, the PCs are now at disadvantage to attack."
Me: "WT?"

I'm only about halfway through the thread but I had to respond to this one on the way. I'm afraid I think this was a dick move by the DM, no two ways about it.

 

[Plane Sailing]

(re:Silence)

The main purpose of the spell historically in D&D, totally defeated by the 5E rules. And yes, if the DM rolls for a random direction for the Cleric to move (and ignores the fact that the DM knows where the spell effect is) and my wife would have known to not center the spell on the Cleric, it could have prevented the Cleric from casting for a single round. But still, that's a stretch. The spell is farily situational. It only works real well if the enemy cannot move 25 feet and get out of it (like in a smaller room with no exits on the other side). Unfortunately for my wife, that was not the case that day. She had gone out of her way to handle this one situation and the one time it happens, the spell is for all intents and purposes useless because WotC nerfed 5E spells.


Edit note: Silence is a concentration spell that cannot move, so it is impossible for a single caster to cast it 3 times. Not only has it been nerfed to not be cast on a foe with a save, and nerfed to no longer be movable, and nerfed to be broken with a concentration check, but also nerfed with regard to how often it can be cast. Once. It is now almost totally limited to small areas where the foe does not have an exit. If you can lock down a foe in a small area and prevent the PC casting Silence from getting damaged, Silence can work. Most of the time, it's more or less useless.

Silence is listed on the WotC Bard optimization page as light blue. It's nothing of the sort. It's so situational. If the party can lock down an enemy caster, then it can work. But there are so few ways to do that anymore. Most of the lockdowns have been nerfed. An enemy can sometimes disrupt a grappling Bard using it with a single weapon attack (and of course, a grappling Bard needs 2 actions to get this combo even started).

Well hoo-rah for something sensible. I've always hated the idea that you could have a second level cleric spell that completely shut down casters (apart from the use of hypnotic pattern pre-3e, and metamagic-ed silent spells in 3e).

The spell makes sense to help people move quietly. I don't think it ever made sense as a mage-slayer.

 

[KarinsDad]

I'm only about halfway through the thread but I had to respond to this one on the way. I'm afraid I think this was a dick move by the DM, no two ways about it.

A DM did not actually do that (TMK). It's just how it works via RAW best I can tell. I probably should have put "Player:" in that text instead of "Me:". It was just an example of what could happen at a table (to illustrate how a DM could rule by RAW and result in a xxxx move).

 

[Eirikrautha]

A sorceror in my game got excellent effect by twinning it.

What ever you do, don't cross the streams!!!

 

[Plane Sailing]

Sleep is only good (and it's really good) against things with low hp. Our 1st level wizard was dominating at 1st level when we fought kobolds and other things with less than 12 hit points. Sleep stinks (even 2nd level sleep) against CR 2's and higher. Tasha's is a much better choice at that point.

Perhaps though it is that Sleep changes from being an opening move to being a finishing move though - so it doesn't 'stink', but it is used at different points in a fight. still good.

 

[Plane Sailing]

A DM did not actually do that (TMK). It's just how it works via RAW best I can tell. I probably should have put "Player:" in that text instead of "Me:". It was just an example of what could happen at a table (to illustrate how a DM could rule by RAW and result in a xxxx move).

Phew!

 

[S'mon]

It also depends on whether the player knows that he will only be in 1 to 2 fights per day. If he doesn't know that, the wizard is even weaker due to not casting any low level spells in some combats.

I haven't seen a lot of Wizard players saving their best spells for later in 3e or 4e, though it was common in pre-3e at low level. 3e was more '15 MAD' where Wizards would blow all their spells quickly then get the group to stop. In 4e IME Wizards typically use a Daily in every fight if available, but (unlike 3e) not in every round of every fight.

It looks as if 5e Wizards can act much like 3e Wizards without overpowering the game as much, but too early to say for sure yet.

 

[raleel]

Perhaps though it is that Sleep changes from being an opening move to being a finishing move though - so it doesn't 'stink', but it is used at different points in a fight. still good.

That and going from cr1/8 kobolds with 5 hit points to cr2 with 50 hit points is about 7 levels of encounter jump and you can be dropping another 6 dice of sleeping power into it.

The big neutralizer of sleep is that it doesn't "damage" in parallel. Fireballs do damage to everyone, sleep you have to pull from the pool, so it works great against low hit point guys, relative to your level. But everyone increases hit points, so it gets worse.