D&D 5E Warlocks seem pointless

[Blue]

As for the guy who seems to think that you can make a hand crossbow into a pact weapon, review the text: "You can choose the form that *this melee weapon* takes each time you create it...You can transform one magic weapon into your pact weapon by performing a special ritual...it appears whenever you create your pact weapon thereafter."

That looks like a misunderstanding. One poster was talking about pact blade in one hand and crossbow in another with the crossbow expert feat, and then others replied to bring up information agreeing with you.

A high dex warlock with a pact rapier and crossbow and hex to add damage to the extra attack as well would be potent in melee, though since we're talking feat investment we could compare with warcaster to use EB in melee range. Hmm, I wonder where the math falls at various levels for that assuming Thirsting Blade or Agonizing Blast as appropriate.

 

[Uchawi]

Short rests is the Achilles heel for a lot of classes that depend on it, especially for DMs that have never played 4E, or prefer more traditional approaches to class power via older editions and withholding resources. I have not found a happy medium.

 

[TrippyHippy]

I think that issue is more to do with the 4E mindset to be honest. Deciding to take a short rest is a player choice, not a DM one. Sure, a DM could decide to keep throwing hostile encounters at the party without rest, but it wouldn't make a good story. Otherwise, if a party finishes off a challenging encounter, it's not unreasonable for a player to ask for a short rest.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I think that issue is more to do with the 4E mindset to be honest. Decidibg to take a short rest is a player choice, not a DM one. Sure, a DM could decide to keep throwing hostile encounters at the party without rest, but it wouldn't make a good story. Otherwise, if a party finishes off a challenging encounter, it's not unreasonable for a player to ask for a short rest.

Players can ask for a short rest all they want, and it doesn't mean the DM is harming "the story" by having them be interrupted. The PCs don't dictate the actions of every other living being in the game world, and a good DM will maintain that game world in the most logical sense. PCs want to take a short rest in the middle of a dungeon? That's nice, but maybe the other dungeon inhabitants are out looking for this group of would be heroes who just invaded their home and don't remain in their rooms like some sort of computer game monster, oblivious to anything that doesn't enter it's aggro range.

TL;DR: Players can decide to try to take a short rest when they want, but they aren't entitled to a short rest whenever they want.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Players can decide to try to take a short rest when they want, but they aren't entitled to a short rest whenever they want.

I agree with one caveat... if you more often then not tell them they can't, maybe you need to consider that they and you need to revalue what you want from the game, because someone is not on the same page as the others.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I agree with one caveat... if you more often then not tell them they can't, maybe you need to consider that they and you need to revalue what you want from the game, because someone is not on the same page as the others.

I think you misunderstood my point. My bad for not making it very clear. The DM isn't just willy nilly deciding or telling the players they can't take a short rest. Whether or not the PCs can take a short rest should be dependent on what makes sense at that moment in time and place in the game. It shouldn't be automatically available after X encounters or after big bad boss fight or whatever. And the world shouldn't be put on pause just because the players want one. That means that a short rest could be available after every encounter if there was nothing else going on and nothing around that could interrupt them. It also means that maybe there is so much going on and so many opponents in the vicinity that they could go a dozen fights without one.

IMO, I think anything else is metagaming*. And all of my players who I've gamed with tend to understand that how the rules work always have to be taken in the context of what's going on in the game at that moment as a given without my express discussion of it.


*I.e., I don't want the players saying, "We can keep going on, because we'll get a short rest after the next encounter, and a long rest after the next 3 or 4." I want them making their decisions as if they were the PCs themselves, and weighing the risks in that context.

 

[Erik42]

Wow, a lot of great advice on how to make my warlock more competitive. For those that asked, mine is 4th level, high elf, low strength, good dex, pact of the tome, arch-fey, for melee he's been going with two short swords, eldritch blast has been my go to spell, but I have not enhanced it to the degree that some have suggested. Back to the PH. It should be noted that I'm playing with a DM that sometimes does make it difficult to get a rest, but still I was thinking I needed a four hour rest (elf) to recover my slots.

 

[Rune]

It should be noted that I'm playing with a DM that sometimes does make it difficult to get a rest, but still I was thinking I needed a four hour rest (elf) to recover my slots.

It should be noted that an elf still needs to spend 8 hours in a long rest to receive its benefits. It's just that only four of those hours are needed for the trance. But even non-elves get to spend some of those 8 hours awake.

 

[TrippyHippy]

Players don't need permission from the DM to ask for a short rest. Sure, the circumstances will dictate their opportunities in a rational sense - but one violent situation followed by another and another does not make a good adventure. It's a bad mindset for any DM to keep throwing encounters at a party simply to dictate control on them. In short, it should not be treated as a player vs DM issue.

 

[Zardnaar]

I hadn't caught the part that the spell slots come back after a short rest, so thanks for that. I don't disagree that the role playing possibilities are tremendous. Also, my warlock is still just 4th level, and it sounds like some of the more desirable class features become available a bit later. However, at lower levels, this class does not seem to be on par with the others in the party, especially the fighter types and even the rogue. Thanks everyone for your input.

Treat the class as an archer not a spell caster and it starts to make sense.