Ravenheart87
Explorer
It's an attack, not a spell.
I disagree, because this magic comes closest with a Lightinig Bolt, which is the third level.
And one more detail, approaches, or what magic? Does not have the BOLT magic in the PHB.
As a first approximation, number of dice of damage are a clue as to level, so 7d6 is probably 7th level. Its not always true, of course, but its pretty close.
In 5E, it's almost always wrong to equate dice to level directly.
The table on page 284 of the DMG gives 7d6 as typical of 4th level multiple target spells.
7th level would be 11d10 single target or 12d6 multiple target. Or roughly equivalent damage in other combinations of sides.
The ability to save changes things as well as unlimited use. 7th level would be 11d10 single target with a save allowed and limited use. 7d6 is appropriate for unlimited use, roll to hit, no save. Not perfect, I agree, but as a quick analysis of an at-will, single target, roll to hit attack, 7d6 damage from a CR23 creature is probably safe to approximate it as a 7th level spell for the purposes of immunity.
The ability to save changes things as well as unlimited use. 7th level would be 11d10 single target with a save allowed and limited use. 7d6 is appropriate for unlimited use, roll to hit, no save. Not perfect, I agree, but as a quick analysis of an at-will, single target, roll to hit attack, 7d6 damage from a CR23 creature is probably safe to approximate it as a 7th level spell for the purposes of immunity.
Let's put it this way- if I was playing a pc choosing a 7th level spell and bolt was on the list alongside delayed blast fireball, finger of death, prismatic spray and symbol, I know which one is first to get tossed out of consideration. And not first by a little; first by a long ways.
No - 7d6 is appropriate, perhaps even a bit low, for a 4th level spell, 3rd if it's single target.
Let's put it this way: Whats better: Magic Missile in a 7th slot or Delayed blast fireball, finger of death, or prismatic spray?
The point, as per the OP, is whether or not it overcomes a Rakshasha's Mgaic Immunity. So, in that non-standard case of a monster fighting a monster, a CR23 monsters 7d6 bolt overcoming a Rakshasa's Magic immunity, treating it as a 7th level spell-equivalent is a valid choice. This is not an argument to try and re-cast BOLT as a 7th level spell for PCs to have access to. It does boil down to DM ruling, but I think the OP wants to avoid the DM fiat ruling (because he's asked here, rather than roll with fiat) and try and come up with a systemic reasoning for a ruling.
Here's another way to look at it: CR23 Monster, spell attacks are treated as 1/4 CR so its a 5th or 6th level spell equivalent. (typically casters highest level spell slot is 1/2 level, so another 1/2 of that is the bulk of spells available, therefore 1/4).
We could do this all day. Is it "correct" by RAW? Probably not. Doesn't matter. The very scenario of Rakshasas and Empyreans fighting is outside of RAW so its moot.
I agree. But, I am not talking about spells. I am talking about a monsters Ranged Spell Attack for the purposes of a Rakshasa's immunity. Comparing it loosely with spells is fine, since the Rakshasa's immunity is called out for spells.
Why do I go through the mental gymnastics? What if another creature has a 3d6 bolt ranged spell attack? If I go with some people, its a ranged spell attack, not a spell, so not immune. Others definitely immune since a 3d6 ranged spell attack is below the immunity threshold no matter how you figure, but so is 7d6 bolt. But that is an all or nothing approach. If a CR23 empyrean can't hit a rakshasa then its basically immune to any spell attack from another monster ( I haven't combed the MM to see just how many monsters the rakshasa is immune to that it probably shouldn't be assuming PC spell rules, but I think its safe to assume if its immune to a CR 23 monsters spell attack, its immune most other monsters). That doesn't feel right.
By using a rough dice = spell level equivalent for the purposes of immunity it opens the rakshasa to spell attacks from tough monsters which feels right, but keeps them immune to weaker monsters spell attacks which also feels right.
Once again, I am not claiming BOLT with 7d6 is equal to a 7th level spell...only that for the purposes of a rakshasa's immunity, dice=spell level is good first approximation for it to overcome a rakshasa's immunity.