D&D 5E Moon Druid in Lost Mines of Phandelver

[Sacrosanct]

So, the druid won't be stealing the show when he shifts to bear form at level 2? I've been reading that this is, in fact, an issue,...

Where? Here? If you have, then I'm assuming you've also read MANY people with actual play experience say the hubbub over the moon druid is largely overblown. If anything, it's only really at level 2, and even then not very much. Just enforce the rules (only an animal they have seen), and unless you do a short rest after every encounter, it won't be all that noticeable from a OP standpoint.

So...

Does Barkskin work in wild shape form, or no?

How do you determine what animals a Druid has seen prior to the start of his adventuring career?

Barkskin does work, but remember that the druid will be level 3 before that even becomes an option. At level 3, every other class gains things that mitigates the perceived OPness of the bear shape significantly.

For your second question, whatever makes sense. If you have a basic understanding of ecology and habitats, you know that bears and lions and tigers don't live in the same regions.


But really, and this is the advice I keep giving in threads like these, is play the druid first and see how actual play goes before even worrying about changing the rules. 5e, more than any other edition in my opinion, is not good to do theorycrafting with because so many other factors that happen in game impact your guesses.

 

[DEFCON 1]

The other important facet to remember is that whether or not the Moon Druid overshadows the other PCs will also be extremely dependent on what PCs the other players have. If all of your players split up their functionality and their purpose... having a Moon Druid just adds to the power of the group, rather than overpowers it.

In the game I DM... I have a halfork devotion paladin who is the armored tank, a dwarf great weapon champion fighter that is the paladin's melee partner damage-dealer, a halfling rogue and wood elf ranger that are both ranged characters, and then the halfork moon druid that goes into dire wolf form and rushes all around the battlefield outside the main scrum. And the dire wolf chases down all the ranged enemies and casters that either stay outside trying to pick off the other participants or who go rushing after the ranger and rogue to engage them in melee. So in this regard, the speed and extra HP of the moon druid is a godsend to everyone, and nobody is at all concerned that he might be "overpowered".

 

[Sacrosanct]

The other important facet to remember is that whether or not the Moon Druid overshadows the other PCs will also be extremely dependent on what PCs the other players have. If all of your players split up their functionality and their purpose... having a Moon Druid just adds to the power of the group, rather than overpowers it.

In the game I DM... I have a halfork devotion paladin who is the armored tank, a dwarf great weapon champion fighter that is the paladin's melee partner damage-dealer, a halfling rogue and wood elf ranger that are both ranged characters, and then the halfork moon druid that goes into dire wolf form and rushes all around the battlefield outside the main scrum. And the dire wolf chases down all the ranged enemies and casters that either stay outside trying to pick off the other participants or who go rushing after the ranger and rogue to engage them in melee. So in this regard, the speed and extra HP of the moon druid is a godsend to everyone, and nobody is at all concerned that he might be "overpowered".

I really want to reiterate this because it's so very true. Combat encounters are rarely static where you just stand there and roll to hit, comparing DPR with each other. They are pretty chaotic at times, and having PCs utilize abilities and powers to act as a team makes everyone happy.

In the game where I'm a player in, I'm a shadow monk who does pretty much exactly what the druid in your example does. I use my speed and misty step to patrol the perimeter and take out archers and anyone fleeing. How OP a PC is largely is dependent on the context of a particular scenario.

 

[Werebat]

Where? Here? If you have, then I'm assuming you've also read MANY people with actual play experience say the hubbub over the moon druid is largely overblown. If anything, it's only really at level 2, and even then not very much. Just enforce the rules (only an animal they have seen), and unless you do a short rest after every encounter, it won't be all that noticeable from a OP standpoint.

The only people I've read HERE who have actually seen the Moon Druid in play are the ones saying it was OP in the games they played in. You're making it sound like there are one or two theorycrafters in ivory towers who think it might be problematic on paper, but everyone who has played one knows the truth that it's actually the Tiny Tim of class options. That's not true.

Edit: Look here: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?368556-Moon-Circle-Druid-Play-Report

 

[Eejit]

I've played with a Moon Druid at my table. He wasn't OP, just strong. That said, he used standard combat forms, not the grapple-master Giant Crabs, Giant Constrictor Snakes, Giant Toads and so on.

 

[Sacrosanct]

The only people I've read HERE who have actually seen the Moon Druid in play are the ones saying it was OP in the games they played in. You're making it sound like there are one or two theorycrafters in ivory towers who think it might be problematic on paper, but everyone who has played one knows the truth that it's actually the Tiny Tim of class options. That's not true.

Edit: Look here: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?368556-Moon-Circle-Druid-Play-Report

Dude, I commented on the first first page of that thread, with 3 other people who agreed with me. So if you're telling me that "The only people I read said it was OP", then I'm calling shenanigans. If you actually read the thread you're using as evidence of your position, you'll see that most people who have actually played with the druid, rather than just saying an opinion based on whatever, have said much of the wailing and gnashing of teeth is way overblown.

 

[Werebat]

Dude, I commented on the first first page of that thread, with 3 other people who agreed with me. So if you're telling me that "The only people I read said it was OP", then I'm calling shenanigans. If you actually read the thread you're using as evidence of your position, you'll see that most people who have actually played with the druid, rather than just saying an opinion based on whatever, have said much of the wailing and gnashing of teeth is way overblown.

You're right -- there are some people here who have played Moon Druids or seen them in play and claim that they aren't a problem.

Let me try this again.

I'm running LMoP soon. It runs from levels 1-5.

There is a lot of talk, some of it coming from people with actual experience playing or playing with Moon Druids in their campaigns, that the Moon Druid is problematically OP from levels 2-6 or so. Apparently the class option is "on watch" with at least one member of the dev team and may be errata'd in the future because of this.

From what I've read, the class option's power level tones down a lot by mid-high level. I've seen no arguments against this.

Because the campaign I'm running may well end by level 5, though, I'm considering the following two house rules to tone down any potential Moon Druids:

1. Limit forms to 1/2 CR until level 4
2. Rule that druids can only wild shape into animal forms they have seen AFTER gaining the wild shape ability

Now is your chance to sell me on why I shouldn't do either of these things.

 

[Eejit]

Because the campaign I'm running may well end by level 5, though, I'm considering the following two house rules to tone down any potential Moon Druids:

1. Limit forms to 1/2 CR until level 4
2. Rule that druids can only wild shape into animal forms they have seen AFTER gaining the wild shape ability

Now is your chance to sell me on why I shouldn't do either of these things.

Because those are overkill. I made my suggestions up-thread, as did others, yours go too far.

 

[iserith]

First, is anyone in your group even contemplating a moon druid?

Second, I wouldn't create house rules to deal with the situation. I'd just make the player aware of my concerns and work together to make sure the player's choices aren't stealing spotlight from other players. On average, 20-25% of the time the druid will take center stage and the rest of the time it'll be someone else in the spotlight. The druid's player should respect that when pursuing the goals of play and know when to play the lead and when to play a feature.

 

[Sacrosanct]

1. Limit forms to 1/2 CR until level 4
2. Rule that druids can only wild shape into animal forms they have seen AFTER gaining the wild shape ability

Now is your chance to sell me on why I shouldn't do either of these things.

I'll say the same thing I said earlier:

play the druid first and see how actual play goes before even worrying about changing the rules. 5e, more than any other edition in my opinion, is not good to do theorycrafting with because so many other factors that happen in game impact your guesses.

Seriously, play the druid first. You might not need to change anything, depending on your playstyle. Why create any extra work for yourself when it's not needed?

For example, the ONLY level where I see some balance issues is level 2. Certainly not up to level 6 (not sure where you got that number from). By level 3, the barbarian was a lot more "effective" in battle than the bear shaped druid due to higher damage output and damage resistance. Especially when the druid had to revert back to human many times a lot sooner than he wanted for things like talking or going across a rope bridge.

If I were to make any change at all that sounds reasonable, it would be the CR 1/2 until level 4, but that's it, and even that's not needed. As long as you enforce existing restrictions (like the animal you've seen, which it seems a lot of people ignore), then I really don't see how or why you'd need to make any other changes.