D&D 5E Analyzing 5E: Overpowered by design

[TwoSix]

Most things should be accomplished without magic or special powers. Your chief weapons should be courage and will.

Ironically, my +2 vorpal longsword is named "Courage", and my +3 flametongue is named "Will."

 

[Mallus]

Most things should be accomplished without magic or special powers. Your chief weapons should be courage and will.

Then play something other than a fantasy game.

Me, I want to play classic (but updated!) D&D. Which means fighting vampires, demons, carnivorous Jello, dinosaurs, and robots-that-fell-from-space (I'm re-reading some Blackmoor material right now) using vorpal swords and fireballs.

Oh, and witty one-liners!

 

[Diamabel]

Most things should be accomplished without magic or special powers. Your chief weapons should be courage and will.

You still need tools to implement anything: magic and special powers are tools.

The best a bard could do was give you a +1 to hit. I'd like to see that return.

Make bards bad again? Use an action to grant a +1? You can take the help action to give advantage, which is 4x to 5x better.

Power-building and clever optimizing aren't problems for me. I object to fundamental things like cantrips being at-will, even at 1st level, and ability score increases.

Why? Is there some problem with magic users...being able to use magic?

ASI- so adventurers can never get stronger, healthier, or more intelligent?

 

[Tormyr]

Then play something other than a fantasy game.

Me, I want to play classic (but updated!) D&D. Which means fighting vampires, demons, carnivorous Jello, dinosaurs, and robots-that-fell-from-space (I'm re-reading some Blackmoor material right now) using vorpal swords and fireballs.

Oh, and witty one-liners!

Fighting with witty one-liners? There's a class for that.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Yeah, in LMoP I had a squad of hobbers advancing up a hill toward the PCs. They used their horses as 3/4 cover, a smart tactical move, and it boosted their AC into the 20s, but they still got killed fast. The two survivors turned tail and ran.

I've had things like that happen (because the hobgoblins don't realize at first that the squishy humans are actually heroes--heroes tend to get underestimated by humanoid foes) but once the survivors warn the rest of the hobs they will switch tactics: next time, the hobs shadow the party at long range instead of advancing. The goal is to remain a force-in-being until the party rests or a separate fight starts, at which point the hobs tip the scales.

Still not guaranteed to work, but a smart and realistic tactic.

 

[TreChriron]

Excellent post. Is there room in 5th Edition for the players to feel they have to earn power, though? ....

Thanks!

My players leveled up this weekend to level 4. I have had 4 posts thus far on our Obsidian Portal page about what Feat to take. They are very excited about leveling up. They were gifted a group of holy warriors with a Paladin commander, thus they have been leveling a tad slower than normal, so they are VERY excited about leveling up. in 5e you do GET something every level and the choice you make at 3rd significantly informs later abilities. It's not so complicated as to require a weekend with your personal mathematician it just offers some great simple choices that are fun in play.

If you are talking about in-game power? Absolutely. You can frankly make in game connections, allies, NPCs, relationships, and reputation important in any game. I do! I think it brings the world alive. The connections the characters make in my game are important. I reward players with clues, items and information when they foster those relationships. Those holy warriors? The priest took on a task from the Bishop and has been working with him. When the evil appeared in the sewers below the city he absolutely insisted Father Solais took a contingent of the church's guard with him.

I plan on using the Adventurer, Conqueror, King's rules for building a kingdom, church, or wizard's dungeon in the future. There's some great stuff in there. Eventually, I think you would have the higher level characters found a kingdom and generate some new characters to adventure and then say once every three adventures, pull out the higher level characters for some epic quest to save the world, help a godling, etc. I think it could offer a fun way to try new classes while still developing a character up to the highest levels (it also should cut me some slack, as I am certain running a higher level adventure will be a little more "at the table" work for me as the DM).

 

[Nebulous]

I've had things like that happen (because the hobgoblins don't realize at first that the squishy humans are actually heroes--heroes tend to get underestimated by humanoid foes) but once the survivors warn the rest of the hobs they will switch tactics: next time, the hobs shadow the party at long range instead of advancing. The goal is to remain a force-in-being until the party rests or a separate fight starts, at which point the hobs tip the scales.

Still not guaranteed to work, but a smart and realistic tactic.

I was surprised at how fast then went down even with a 23 AC. Against 4th level PCs. Sort of reminded me to keep in mind that I shouldn't feel too bad about bumping up the AC of some monsters to give a slightly longer fighting chance.

 

[Diamabel]

I was surprised at how fast then went down even with a 23 AC. Against 4th level PCs. Sort of reminded me to keep in mind that I shouldn't feel too bad about bumping up the AC of some monsters to give a slightly longer fighting chance.

Consider bumping HP instead AC as a more reliable method of controlling the length of a battle- it also has the side benefit of "hitting is fun, missing is not"

 

[Nebulous]

yeah, that's probably a better solution, more hp

 

[keterys]

Consider bumping HP instead AC as a more reliable method of controlling the length of a battle- it also has the side benefit of "hitting is fun, missing is not"

You want to be careful about both. If HP inflate too high, it makes some damages feel fairly meaningless ("I've hit this guy with 5 cantrips already and it's not below half hp yet!"), and breaks some spells (ex: Sleep, Power Words).

AC being too low also contributes to some of the the more optimizable strategies around Sharpshooter and Great Weapon Master, where you're okay with a -5 to hit because ACs just don't scale that much. Even a couple higher makes a big difference there. Monsters with a couple uses of Shield work great, too.