D&D 5E Reasons Why My Interest in 5e is Waning

[Kramodlog]

AD&D books generally said magic items are not for sale but if you want to sell them here is a guideline. Spells and Magic (2E) specifically said not to sell magic items.

Its not like you could buy on be in the right size town a'la 3E or create one in an hour in 4E.

An hour!? We are far from the days when the breath of a butterfly was suggested as a necessary ingredient to make a magical item.

Kids these days, they do not know the meaning of the word "earning". Back in my days we needed to do a quest to get a horse. And the horse didn't level as you did. Now it just appears! And another thing, what is it with those wands? Why are they just spells in a canne?

 

[Evenglare]

Man, the kneejerk reaction on magical items from 4th edition to 5th will echo through out the cosmos. Not even magical nuclear explosions have that much force.

 

[Zardnaar]

An hour!? We are far from the days when the breath of a butterfly was suggested as a necessary ingredient to make a magical item.

Kids these days, they do not know the meaning of the word "earning". Back in my days we needed to do a quest to get a horse. And the horse didn't level as you did. Now it just appears! And another thing, what is it with those wands? Why are they just spells in a canne?

I prefer the AD&D approach. After 3E and 4E I don't think PCs should be able to craft magic items easily if you are giving them options like feats to build PCs with. To easy to build combos.

 

[pickin_grinnin]

None of the things mentioned in the original post are of concern to me, though I can see how they bother other people.

When I first got the 5e Player's Handbook, I was very disappointed. Wavy pages with ink bleed, crappy art (particularly with halfings), and poor binding all gave me a pretty bad impression of the product.

Once I sat down and read it, though, I found that I liked it. It's my favorite edition since the original AD&D books. I only play Pathfinder because it's hard to find people who will play anything else.

I don't know how much I will play it, because I'm not fond of class-based systems and there are very few classes in the game itself. That was fine when I started playing in the 1970s, but these days I like to have more character design options. Overall, though, it's a nice game, and goes a long way towards making me forget the nightmare of 4.0.

 

[dmccoy1693]

Ironically, I think that part of the problem they are having is that they are communicating too much. They announced their intentions and all of the planned releases for the first 6 months quite early. In some cases, things didn't go as planned, like Morningstar. That's caused a lot of backlash.

I don't hold it against Wizards for Morningstar's failure. I mean they tried something and it didn't work. Hey it happens, even to the best of us. What matters is: what you do next. Do you get just give up on the idea of digital tools or do you try again. Just a simple statement like "We are in the process of hearing proposals from other potential contractors," goes a long way. It lets the customers know that the goal is not dead and progress is being made towards it, while still not promising what it will look like, what it can do, or when it will be released. But there is nothing.

Something as simple as publishing a pdf can get complicated from a business standpoint. How much should they charge? It looks like you can get a Pathfinder pdf version for $10, but only as an add-on when you buy the book direct.

Paizo sells the PDFs to all their large hardcover books for $10, regardless of if/where you bought the physical book. Paizo made this decision for 1 simple reason: to hinder piracy. Those that pirate typically fall into 2 camps: 1) those that do not want to pay money for any RPG book ever or 2) those that feel the retail price of the PDF is too expensive. Group 1 will never be their customers while something can be done about group 2. At $50 for the core book, it would not be unreasonable to Paizo to charge $25-$30 for the PDF, but lets be honest, not that many are going to buy it. This would cause group 2's numbers are going to swell. But by offering it for $10, Its a very reasonable price for a 500+ page book, they managed to keep group 2's numbers to a minimum.

By comparison, Wizards has released only a gimpped version of the game as a PDF and there is no legal version of the full game on PDF. So those that want more than Fighter/Rogue/Cleric/Magic User on PDF have to turn to piracy. This means that Group 1 is still just as strong as it always will be, nothing is done to reduce the size of Group 2 and now we have a Group 3: those that are willing to pay a high price for a legal PDF. The no-PDF policy is encouraging piracy, and it is leaving money on the table.

 

[dmccoy1693]

Part of what you are referring to is built-in obsolescence. By that I mean WotC is going to purposely release a new or highly revised version of the game every few years. That is what helps to generate sales, i.e. $$. Also, they might actually build in things that need to be 'fixed' in order to justify coming out with updates, errata, and even revised versions in order to ... once again, sell more goods. It's part of the business model to which they have attached themselves.

Umm, no. Essentials never hit obsolescence. It was cancelled before the "core 10 books" were ever published. Essentials was suppose to be a rules update, but many stated that so much was changed that it was simply not compatible. Not releasing PDFs is not obsolescence, but not releasing a sellable product they already have on their computers.

To be honest, from an outside observer standpoint, Wizards feel like NASA to me. NASA has a goal of establishing a moon base, then a new administration comes in and says scrap that, lets get people on Mars. So they make progress towards that. Then a new administration comes in and changes the goal to getting people on to set foot on an asteroid. Over and over again, this happens. No presidential administration sticks with the goal of the previous administration long enough to actually get man kind to anywhere we have yet to actually be. And the end result, while great, is not what it could be.

I love the 5e books. I think they are excellent. I also love Curiosity. Its a great rover. But it is not a moon base nor a Martian exploration team. Just like there are no short adventures coming, no areas of the setting detailed, no example deity pantheons beyond one line entries in the PHB and a short section in the DMG, and much more.

 

[dmccoy1693]

Once I sat down and read it, though, I found that I liked it. It's my favorite edition since the original AD&D books.

I agree. The team really hit it out of the park. But a system does not fire my imagination, settings do. And no setting books have been released for it.

 

[occam]

I don't hold it against Wizards for Morningstar's failure. I mean they tried something and it didn't work. Hey it happens, even to the best of us. What matters is: what you do next. Do you get just give up on the idea of digital tools or do you try again. Just a simple statement like "We are in the process of hearing proposals from other potential contractors," goes a long way. It lets the customers know that the goal is not dead and progress is being made towards it, while still not promising what it will look like, what it can do, or when it will be released. But there is nothing.

Well, there was the comment from WotC's announcement about the cancellation of DungeonScape:

It’s never easy to end a relationship with one of our business partners, but we remain committed to creating great tabletop and digital gaming experiences for Dungeons & Dragons players and DMs around the world.

I think we also heard from other venues that they're looking into alternatives, but it's going to take them a while to turn things around.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I don't know how much I will play it, because I'm not fond of class-based systems and there are very few classes in the game itself. That was fine when I started playing in the 1970s, but these days I like to have more character design options. Overall, though, it's a nice game, and goes a long way towards making me forget the nightmare of 4.0.

I'm sorry you had a nightmare about 4e. I can assure the reality of it wasn't so bad. ;P

For 5e, the PH has quite a few classes: All the classes that were in AD&D, including the late-addition 1e UA Barbarian, plus the Sorcerer and Warlock introduced in 3e. Each of those classes had further differentiating choices - many domains & schools for clerics & wizards - and several archetypes each for the other classes. In addition, 5e has Backgrounds, a bit like 2e Kits, that can further flesh out a character - but, unlike Kits, they're not strictly tied to class. So you can be a Paladin with the Criminal Background or Wizard with the Soldier background or whatever else amuses you. On top of that, you can use 3e-style multi-classing, and, optionally, feats, to further build to concept. It doesn't add up to as much character customization as 3e (14 years of 3pp stuff) or 4e (3 PHs and 5 'Power' books), but it's just out the gate, with only the PH. More player options might be forthcoming.

 

[dmccoy1693]

Well, there was the comment from WotC's announcement about the cancellation of DungeonScape:

Yes and that was more than a third of a year ago. Just over four months. Anything since? Like I said, I'm tired of waiting. I just want to know that it is not vaporware.