D&D 5E D&D Races vs. Monsters (take away lessons on converting)

[Remathilis]

So having had 24 hours to digest the new races, I got thinking.

Two of the four races were in the Monster Manual as Monsters. How much did the two races (as PC races) differ from the Monsters stats in the MM?

Turns out; Enough.

Lets start by looking at aarakroca. Here are the major differences between the MM monster and PC race

* the monster has 3d8 HD. This is not accounted for in the PC race at all.
* the monster have a land move of 20 ft, the PC race 25 ft.
* its hard to judge ability scores (since monsters use no default array) but it looks like dex and wis are their high scores, with Dex higher than Wis, so they appear to match the PC adjustments.
* the monster makes no mention of the limitation on armor and flight, but to the monster also is wearing no armor (its AC is derived from its +2 dex mod)
* the monster only speaks auran. PC aarakroca get common as well.
* The aarakroca has a +5 in Perception. Seeing it only has a +1 Wis mod, that means it has a +4 to perception checks (equivalent to expertise in the perception skill). The PC race gives no bonus to perception whatsoever.
* The monster has a dive attack, granting it extra damage. The PC race lacks this.
* There is a sidebar about five aarakroca summoning an air elemental. This is also not discussed in the PC race.

Meanwhile, lets look at the Deep Gnome.

* The monster has 3d6 HD, again the PC race does not take this into account.
* The monster has a movement of 20, the PC race 25.
* Ability score mods are VERY hard to track on these guys: they have high Str, Dex, Con and Int (and Int is the lowest of the three high mods). However, to make them fit with gnomes, they have a +2 to Int and +1 Dex.
* Same darkvision and languages.
* The monster is trained in three skills: investigation, perception, and stealth. These are not accounted for in the PC race.
* They both get stone camouflage. The text of both abilities are word-for-word.
* the MM gets several spell-like abilities: at-will nondetection, blindness/deafness, blur, and disguise self 1/day. the PC race lacks these abilities, but can get them as a feat at 4th level (at the earliest).

Conclusions
When converting a monster to a PC race, it appears the following are true.
* HD don't matter. They are only there inflate the monsters HP to make it an appropriate challenge. Unlike 3e, you do not need to account for higher than 1 HD when converting a race.
* Ability modifiers should be thematic, rather than slavish.
* Even if the monster moves slower than 25 feet, PCs races never move slower than that.
* Skills don't matter; unless its something absolutely intrinsic to the race. Even super-high (expertise-level) mods don't need to be accounted for.
* Don't feel its needed to give a race EVERY ability. Especially ones that are more tactical/combat maneuvers (dive, pounce, sneak attack, etc).
* Don't be afraid to make some abilities feats; if its too powerful for low level PCs.
* Most Importantly: You don't need to account for every last thing in the MM. Monsters can have more HP, better stats, even special abilities their PC brethren don't. Include the iconic ones, but don't feel you need to include everything. PCs are PCs; they get their own special toys.

I hope that helps homebrewers and converters some. Now, get working on that minotaur or rogue modron race you were thinking about!

 

[Sunseeker]

I have always felt this to be true, and it is something that always bugged me about "playable" monsters in prior editions, that EVERYTHING must be accounted for, not that I'm playing or someone is playing a potentially "green" member of a species, but that they are playing word-for-word the stat block from the MM. I'm glad to see designers recognizing and accepting this as well. I will feel better about converting monsters to PCs now.

 

[Celebrim]

What happens to the analysis if you assume the monster in the book is classed? Is it possible to derive the NPC monster's class or a near equivalent? What if you assume that NPC's get a weaker version of the PC class? What if you assume that the monster has a racial feat of some sort, not currently available to PCs?

 

[I'm A Banana]

Interesting, but mostly that makes me think two things.

1 - Aarakocra need a feat that grants expertise in Perception and a Dive attack! Maybe let it summon elementals, too!

2 - What the hell does WotC have against a 20 movement speed?

 

[Sacrosanct]

I follow a rule that if a monster stat block has a skill, saving throw, or special ability, it's typically "class based" in the sense that it assumes that most monsters of that species took the same type of class. For example, if I have a monster stat block that says +6 to perception (above and beyond what their WIS is) and has a DIVE ability, then the PC race won't have those because the PC monster will have other abilities that the standard monster won't have based on class. There are exceptions of course (like flight for all birdmen, or a horn attack for all minotaur). But that's a general rule I use and find quite useful.

 

[Remathilis]

What happens to the analysis if you assume the monster in the book is classed? Is it possible to derive the NPC monster's class or a near equivalent? What if you assume that NPC's get a weaker version of the PC class? What if you assume that the monster has a racial feat of some sort, not currently available to PCs?

The problem would be that each monster would be its own "class". There is no set pattern, rhyme or reason. (Take the two examples: both deep gnomes and aarakroca have 3 HD, but one has three skills at normal proficiency, and one has one skill at super-proficiency.) You can assume each monster has a unique "monster class" but I fail to see much value in it.

NPCs usually don't get feats, so if they do have some sort of feat, that is extrapolation beyond the core rules. Now, if you make a feat for a race to grant it abilities the monster version has, that should work (provided you don't mind the race lacking said ability for at the minimum 4 levels) but assuming that a monster aarakroca has some hidden "monster feat" that grants it dive attacks isn't supported at all in the core rules literature. (Though it would make a very fine houserule for PC aarakroca to take).

 

[Derren]

I have always felt this to be true, and it is something that always bugged me about "playable" monsters in prior editions, that EVERYTHING must be accounted for, not that I'm playing or someone is playing a potentially "green" member of a species, but that they are playing word-for-word the stat block from the MM. I'm glad to see designers recognizing and accepting this as well. I will feel better about converting monsters to PCs now.

Except that you are not playing that monster but a failed cloning experiment which might look like the monster but isn't.

 

[Remathilis]

Interesting, but mostly that makes me think two things.

1 - Aarakocra need a feat that grants expertise in Perception and a Dive attack! Maybe let it summon elementals, too!

2 - What the hell does WotC have against a 20 movement speed?

1.) Aarakroca really don't need more stuff, but ymmv.

2.) Its about 5 feet too slow.

I follow a rule that if a monster stat block has a skill, saving throw, or special ability, it's typically "class based" in the sense that it assumes that most monsters of that species took the same type of class. For example, if I have a monster stat block that says +6 to perception (above and beyond what their WIS is) and has a DIVE ability, then the PC race won't have those because the PC monster will have other abilities that the standard monster won't have based on class. There are exceptions of course (like flight for all birdmen, or a horn attack for all minotaur). But that's a general rule I use and find quite useful.

Moreso, its important to note not everything has to be accounted for.

 

[Minigiant]

I think the main thing is the MM version is the normal version and the PC version is the moldbreaker if not heroic version.

So no matter how filmsly or wimpy or muscular the "monster version" is, the heroic version most be serviceable as a PC in many classes. The PC kobold will be the strongest one in the hatchery and the PC half orge will look like a runt as first.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

I interpret the HD in the same way I interpret the HD of the guard over the commoner. Commoner is your basic member of the race, guard is someone with a certain amount of combat training. PC classes represent an alternate type of training (or in the case of the warrior classes, they might represent more and better training beyond what the guard gets).

Humanoids that have more than 1 HD in their most basic MM incarnation are really representing that that race trains more elite warriors by default. There are aarakocra and svirfneblin commoners, and in fact most of the members of their species probably are commoners with 1d8 non-maxed hit points and the PC-style racial traits.

I really like the feat for the svirfneblin, as that is how I was planning on implementing such things. For instance, MM drow all get levitate, but PC drow lack that particular feature. A feat can be made available in my campaign for any PC drow who wants levitate (and it would have other benefits also).

It's worth noting that the racial write up for svirfneblin says that the magical abilities aren't something all svirfneblin have--but that it requires training. So your svirfneblin commoners are unlikely to have such features.

My preference is that a PC can approximate monster stats, because otherwise the world doesn't make a lick of sense to me. A good example would be the gladiator. It looks like he has a bunch of special toys, but almost everything he can do can be approximated by a Battle Master with the right feats. It's expensive to approximate, but it's doable.

I think 5e is off to a reasonably good start. Feats are powerful enough to provide a good option to allow players of monster characters to opt-in to special abilities while allowing those who just want to look like something from the MM without advanced abilities (I have no idea why anyone would ever want to do that--maybe that's what I'm not getting), to avoid paying for such abilities.