D&D 5E Are hardback AP's a waste?

[graves3141]

Hardbacks are only as good as the quality of the adventures in them. HotDQ did not strike me as a particularly good adventure, which has me wondering a lot about how PotA will be. If PotA gets great reviews I might pick it up but I'm more interested in other things like settings.

 

[Gnarl45]

You don't have to have their data to know what works. They don't hold the monopoly on that sort of sales plan.

You don't need data to know what works. Business models that don't work don't stay around for long. If you still have softcover and hardcover out there after all this time, it means you have a market for both types of products and both are viable business models.

You need data to know what works the best. Without any inside information, there really is no way to know why WoTC went for hardcover AP full of illustrations instead of the single-use softcover black and white 1e adventures printed on toilet paper.

 

[Sailor Moon]

Are you trying to convince me I'm wrong, or asking why I would prefer hardback books? Softbound books don't hold up to heavy use at my table. I have 30 years of gaming experience to tell me that's true. Not only that, you are completely out of touch if you think they could sell a soft-cover AP for 5 bucks. My Shackled City hardcover is over 400 pages in full color - there's no way you could sell that in physical form for less than $25-30 unless it's printed on tissue paper. The other option, purely digital, is another canard. You're proposing they could sell a 400 page PDF for $3 and somehow still be able to pay the authors, artists, editors, and the rest of the staff. Even after that, I'd have to spend $20 of my own money just to print the thing. I'm not seeing anything even remotely feasible in anything you've suggested.

And I have just as many years of experience and I tell you that unless you are beating people with your books, they do not disintegrate after use.

I still have my Lords of Darkness and Silver Marches books from 3rd edition and after heavy heavy use, they are still there. They have scuffs, they have bent edges, and a tear here and there but that's it.

Liking hardbacks has nothing to do with it. If you like hardbacks then you like hardbacks, but I don't leave the excuse about the books not being able to hold up. I have had more hardback books come apart than I have the softback ones. The only softback I have ever had fall apart was Monster of Faerun from 3rd edition and I believe that was because I left it on the dashboard in the car for a while and the heat probably weakened the glue.

I have a great grasp on things to be honest.

 

[Doc_Klueless]

I have a great grasp on things to be honest.

Lately, there has been a rash of "Because it's true for me, it must be true for you!" posts.

He's given you his experiences. You then come along and go, "nuh uh!" Such a response does not negate his experience with actual reality. That you've not experienced the same thing is true, but that's it.

 

[Sailor Moon]

Lately, there has been a rash of "Because it's true for me, it must be true for you!" posts.

He's given you his experiences. You then come along and go, "nuh uh!" Such a response does not negate his experience with actual reality. That you've not experienced the same thing is true, but that's it.

I think you really need to go back and read the post again.

If that's his experience then fine, but I wouldn't say it's the majority. All you have to do is go and visit the Paizo forums and you will see that it does work.

 

[Doc_Klueless]

I think you really need to go back and read the post again.

You mean the part where he tells you that his softbacks fall apart from the way he uses them and then you come along and say:

And I have just as many years of experience and I tell you that unless you are beating people with your books, they do not disintegrate after use.

I think I read that just fine.

If that's his experience then fine, but I wouldn't say it's the majority. All you have to do is go and visit the Paizo forums and you will see that it does work.

I visit Paizo all the time. (I play Pathfinder every other week and have purchased all their Pawns because I find them to be superior to Miniatures for my use due to cost and storagability (new word!). My experience doesn't match his either. I don't believe they are the experience of the majority also either ( ). My softbacks hold up just fine while some of my hardbacks are falling apart. However, I'm also not coming along and telling him that he must be beating people with his books or overly abusing them in some other hyperbolic fashion. I'm taking him at his word that when he uses softbacks vs. hardbacks, his softbacks fall apart and his hardbacks don't.

For HIM hardbacks are more durable and hold up better and thus are worth the price and not a waste of money (which is kinda what the OP was about, wasn't it?).

After all, you did ask:

Do you think big hardback AP's are a waste of money?

 

[Gnarl45]

I think you really need to go back and read the post again.

If that's his experience then fine, but I wouldn't say it's the majority. All you have to do is go and visit the Paizo forums and you will see that it does work.

You basically claimed two things.

1) WoTC could sell paperback AP. That seems like a reasonable claim and you're saying that Paizo sells paperback AP as evidence that it could work.

2) WoTC would make more money selling paperback AP or PDF versions (your post #3). That's where some people disagree and others wonder how you could possibly know that without having access to relevant data.


You should take a look at this thread: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...mancer-Games-What-do-you-want-us-to-make-next

The people at Necromancer games seem to say that softcover worked very poorly for them (post #6). I think that's what Charles was refering to when he said that Frog Games knew better. But even that doesn't help because the physiognomy of their clients might be different than WoTC's.

 

[Shasarak]

Do you think big hardback AP's are a waste of money?

I do regret buying the hardback Hoard of the Dragon Queen. I should have gone with something classic like Rise of the Runelords or if they did a reprint version of Temple of Elemental Evil. But live and learn I guess.

 

[S'mon]

The problem I'm seeing here is the exaggeration in how people say they handle their books. Unless you go around beating the dog and kids, or leaving it out in the rain, it's not going to fall apart if it's a paperback book. If you are that rough with a book then you are in the minority.

Softback books are not going to fall apart while you are prepping it. I mean what exactly are you doing to the book? Are you opening it up and pressing the front and back covers together so you can read one page at a time while holding it in one hand?

One of my Paizo AP issues fell apart in use, apparently it's a common problem just from being opened flat on the table, unless you crease the covers first.

 

[JWO]

I'm the person who brought up the hardcover/softcover issue in the other thread.

I didn't end up buying HotDQ, purely because the fact that it was a hardcover put it out of my price range. I've bought a few Paizo APs now (all softcover), because they're just in that price range that I can afford to invest in a gaming product that isn't a core book. I know that HotDQ has more content than the Paizo APs but I think that's part of the problem as well. I don't know that I want to invest in that much of an adventure path straight away. There's always the risk that it's going to be a stinker, which means that I've wasted that much more of my money (I think HotDQ is about/almost double the price of the Paizo APs).

With regards to the hardcover durability thing, for me, that isn't an issue. Sure, a paperback is going to get scuffed up over time, the cover might get bent and even a bit torn, but that doesn't stop it from being usable does it? Even if I do end up wanting to reuse the AP, the fact that its cover is a bit damaged or its spine bent doesn't affect the contents to the point where I can't use it anymore. I see gaming books as something to be used, not something to get precious over (I have my collection of comics for that ), so it doesn't bother me if the book I'm using gets a bit battered. I don't even thing there's that much difference between the amount of damage a hardback and a paperback will see to be honest. All IMHO of course!

I've bought most of the novels I've read second hand from charity shops so I'm pretty used to having a nicely worn-in book, rather than a pristine thing.