Venting on Sorcerer build

[MoonSong]

I don't know BWF.

BadWrongFun. "My sorcerer is awesome, you don't need more, and you suck if you think you do..." Not putting words in your mouth, it just felt like that and I'm sorry if I'm being too sensitive about it.

 

[I'm A Banana]

BadWrongFun. "My sorcerer is awesome, you don't need more, and you suck if you think you do..." Not putting words in your mouth, it just felt like that and I'm sorry if I'm being too sensitive about it.

Definitely not the intent!

It's more "The sorcerer as it is doesn't objectively suck, and is entirely delightfully playable as a sorcerer."

Which certainly doesn't mean this is universal or that it might not meet expectations.

 

[Rejuvenator]

I mean, the X-men had a school where they learned to use their powers and understand what they were. Magic comes from the blood, but my gnome wild sorcerer certainly spend years learning how to tame the roiling chaos within himself long enough not to turn into a potted plant when he wiggles his fingers.

That ain't slackin'.

Firstly, X-Men went to school to learn academics too (I'd speculate that a significant portion of their curriculum was standard American school studies.) Secondly, if sorcerer PCs are like X-Men, then Storm spent years learning how to make a little rain cloud, then was suddenly calling down tornadoes after mere days of villian-fighting. IOW, hundreds of days in school to make a little cloud drizzle above someone's head, then overnight on adventure, can make a frickin' tornado. It takes a whole lot of squinting to make sense of that.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Firstly, X-Men went to school to learn academics too (I'd speculate that a significant portion of their curriculum was standard American school studies.) Secondly, if sorcerer PCs are like X-Men, then Storm spent years learning how to make a little rain cloud, then was suddenly calling down tornadoes after mere days of villian-fighting. IOW, hundreds of days in school to make a little cloud drizzle above someone's head, then overnight on adventure, can make a frickin' tornado. It takes a whole lot of squinting to make sense of that.

The idea that 1st level sorcerer is a graduate of the school and can use the abilities they were trained to use in the school but isn't done honing their abilities doesn't require a lot of squinting.

 

[Rejuvenator]

The idea that 1st level sorcerer is a graduate of the school and can use the abilities they were trained to use in the school but isn't done honing their abilities doesn't require a lot of squinting.

It's a very exponential learning curve. Someone WAS slackin' in school, or their teacher was terrible. Maybe I lack imagination?

 

[I'm A Banana]

It's a very exponential learning curve. Someone WAS slackin' in school, or their teacher was terrible. Maybe I lack imagination?

Why? If they're a graduate at 1st level, and their age at 1st level is, I dunno, their mid-20's, and they've been training since they were 8 years old, that's 12 years of training to unlock all the magical secrets they were born with. You could go from "some guy" to "doctor" in 12 years IRL, and in the fantasy world, you could go from "my dreams cause plates to float" to "I can zap lightning from my fingertips and conjure force-fields."

 

[Celebrim]

Most classes have type of origin that give them certain abilities/proficiencies.

Think of sorcerer's as being candidates for Professor Xavier's School for the gifted, only without the training.

They are mutants. They are born not quite completely human. They have uncanny powers that they barely understand. They were working on farm one day, or attending parties with other flighty useless nobles, or doing light labor in the back of their parents shop, then turned 16 and all of the sudden instead of and in addition to the the usual problems of young adults, they had lasers shooting out of their eyes, small glittering scales appeared on strange parts of their body, and their voice gets all spooky when they are experiencing emotion.

Since that time they've mostly been trying to figure out who they are. Why haven't they learned how to fight? Well, probably because most of them can melt you just by looking at you. Most classes describe someone who has spent their youth living differently, and is consequently more capable than the average person. The sorcerer's default presentation is someone who had a normal life, and suddenly finds out he was born different.

If you want a sorcerer with some mechanical crunch to their background beyond their time as a sorcerer, you need to multiclass or start in a different class and multiclass into sorcerer. D&D is not and has never been set up with the idea of you enter the game with a long career behind you.

I do concur with the sentiment however that the sorcerer spell list has become too focused. In 3e I tended to play a game with myself along the lines of, "If X superhero was a 8th level sorcerer, what spells would they have to represent their super powers?"

 

[Rejuvenator]

Why? If they're a graduate at 1st level, and their age at 1st level is, I dunno, their mid-20's, and they've been training since they were 8 years old, that's 12 years of training to unlock all the magical secrets they were born with. You could go from "some guy" to "doctor" in 12 years IRL, and in the fantasy world, you could go from "my dreams cause plates to float" to "I can zap lightning from my fingertips and conjure force-fields."

I'm a bit lost on our disconnect. I don't have a problem with the concept of "some guy" (8 yrs old) to "doctor" (20 yr old), or an 8 yr old with magical dreams needing a dozen years to zap lightning and conjure force fields.

I repeat, I'm squinting to make sense of the slow learning curve in school that specifically trains the skill, followed by a super fast learning curve on an adventure that has little or nothing to do with said skill.

So to reference your examples, an 8 yr old has "dreams [that] cause plates to float" and then spends 12 yrs learning to control these powers -- except that 12 years of specialized training does not teach to "zap lightning from fingertips and conjure force-fields." No, 12 years of intense specialized training produces a little zap of electricity. It is ONLY a few weeks of shooting goblins that suddenly induces knowledge and control of lightning blasts and forcefields.

Or to use your other simile, "some guy" spends 12 yrs learning to become a "doctor", then goes on Pee Wee's Adventure and suddenly becomes a world class neurosurgeon.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I repeat, I'm squinting to make sense of the slow learning curve in school that specifically trains the skill, followed by a super fast learning curve on an adventure that has little or nothing to do with said skill.

So your problem is with levels? Yeah, they can be unrealistic. Alternatives are usually too complex or result in lopsided characters. But the level system isn't unique to the sorcerer.

 

[neobolts]

Firstly, X-Men went to school to learn academics too (I'd speculate that a significant portion of their curriculum was standard American school studies.) Secondly, if sorcerer PCs are like X-Men, then Storm spent years learning how to make a little rain cloud, then was suddenly calling down tornadoes after mere days of villian-fighting. IOW, hundreds of days in school to make a little cloud drizzle above someone's head, then overnight on adventure, can make a frickin' tornado. It takes a whole lot of squinting to make sense of that.

The adventuring they go on IS the school in this comparison. Up until now they've...uh...erm...
They've been charlitans, guild artisans, sailors, and urchins!

Now that I said that, I find myself wondering...
"Are sorcerers the easiest to pair with any background?"