D&D 5E Convince me to keep reading Princes of the Apocalypse (*significant* spoilers. Also my players keep out)

[brehobit]

OK, based on the very favorable reviews here, I took an extra 40 minutes going home to find a store that had the new Princes of the Apocalypse adventure and dropped $52.00 (inc tax) on it since I have a rare free weekend where I can read it through. And after about an hour of reading, I'm pretty much of the opinion this isn't a very good adventure and I've wasted my time and money. I just want to raise my concerns and see how others feel they can be dealt with.

Again, this is a rant about certain issues, but rather than being purely a list of problems, I want to hear what others think and how they plan on dealing with these issues.
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• My major issue with this adventure is how static it is. Everything happens in a fairly well developed and well traveled part of the world. Yet bad things apparently abound. And more so, there are all sorts of things just packed together in a way that reminds me of keep-on-the-boarderlands as much as anything.
  • Just in the first part (Sighing Valley) We've got gnolls, manicores, griffons, aarakocra, and two cult locations all easily within 10 football fields of each other. And a dead body. (And as a note, the map's scale isn't consistent!) This all seems unlikely.
  • It's unclear (so far) why, given a cult so evil and potentially powerful, the PCs can't just head to one of the "nearby" major cities (week away) and ask for help. I mean it sounds like they might be going there at some point. Does no one in Waterdeep care enough even if presented with significant evidence of what's going on? Now I'm hopeful there is a good answer somewhere in the module that I've not read, but it ain't obvious.
• Descriptions are sometimes sparse to the point I find it hard to follow what is going on.
  • What the heck is "the Eagle" on page 47? A self-reseting (non-magical?) battering ram? I'd really appreciate some better idea what's going on here.
  • How many people (total) are there at RiverGard Keep?
  • also at RiverGard, what are the commoners doing here? Where do they stay? It sounds like they know about the cultists and don't like them. So are they slaves? Do they know the those occupying the keep are cultists? I've no idea. It feels like they just got tacked into a wandering monster table.

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In general, this doesn't seem to be an adventure of the quality of most of the later Pathfinder adventure paths nor of the better modules from 2e and 3e (think of the Red Hand of Doom here). Maybe it's better than the previous adventures (reviews here kept me from those) but it still feels weak.

All that said, I'm planning on running a 5e module and I've dropped a couple hours and $50 into this. So I'd love to hear what others think and how they plan on dealing with the issues raised (or why they aren't issues...)

 

[Tormyr]

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[Jester David]

Your first point is a little like Cabot Cove Syndrome. While the protagonist of Murder She Wrote was living in the small, sleepy costal villiage, the homocide rate was a hundred times higher than the national average making it the most dangerous place to live in America (if not the world).
Just like how crazy stuff always happens in Sunnydale, Smallville, Haven, etc (or wherever the protagonists happen to be).

The second point is a simmilar convention. Heroes never call for help. The Arrow never calls the Flash when he needs to get out if the city fast, and Captain America doesn't put in a call to Iron Man or Thor. Running to the city for help just isn't something heroes do.

Neither of these complaints are unique to the D&D modules. The first Pathfinder AP has the sleepy town of Sandpoint repeatedly struck by huge problems. And the PCs cloud easily pass the buck to the 2-3 high level NPCs in the region or run to Magnimar for help.
But then their story is over...

 

[brehobit]

Oh, I agree. It's just the the long-form modules I've played or run in the last few years don't have these problems (Red Hand of Doom, Kingmaker, a true20 "pulp" adventure and so far the pirate Pathfinder AP). The adventure tends to have a reason for all this. I'm not fond of the conceit of the adventure (Elemental Evil etc.) but even that doesn't seem to justify much of these packed adventures (Of the ~8 encounters in the valley, only 3 are tied to the cult--one in a way where the timing "just happens" to be when the party shows up).

As far as asking for help, why wouldn't they? I generally prefer adventures where there is no one to ask for help. I can easily fix that by moving the setting away from the Realms and into a more points-of-light setting (and I will if I run this). But I'd just like the whole thing to make sense.

Also, any thoughts on the specific questions? The Ram and the commoners? Has anyone gone through the adventure and started totaling up the number of bad guys in each location? It seems likely that the PCs will occasionally get _everyone_ after them, and easily knowing how many everyone is would be useful.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Well I can't make you like anything and I have not yet read it my self having just bought it while passing a game shop in Dublin.
However, too many high level predators in limited geography has been an issue in D&D since the first 30' long 20' tall dragon was found in a 50' by 50' room reached via 5' by 10' corridor.
So ignore it or replace what you think does not fit with something that does. In fact keep the statblock and reskin the critter.
Things too close together then spread them out.
As for the high level npc, as far as I am concerned the campaign is about the PCs, the high level npcs are colour. In the month or two it would take the pc to arrange a meeting with Kelben Blackstaff or whoever the world would have ended.

 

[Gundan Shadeslinger]

This is a perfect example of why Wizards should do those short term adventures that focus on small local events and enable a PC to gain just a few levels.

 

[brehobit]

However, too many high level predators in limited geography has been an issue in D&D since the first 30' long 20' tall dragon was found in a 50' by 50' room reached via 5' by 10' corridor.
So ignore it or replace what you think does not fit with something that does. In fact keep the statblock and reskin the critter.
Things too close together then spread them out.

I just felt that a new module should, ideally, not suffer from the problems that have been plaguing D&D for years and which other APs have managed to address. I certainly didn't expect to see these problems in an AP that was so well received.

 

[aramis erak]

pre-renaissance literature is filled with such trouble magnet spots, as well.

The protagonists, however, tend to be the chosen of the gods...

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I just felt that a new module should, ideally, not suffer from the problems that have been plaguing D&D for years and which other APs have managed to address. I certainly didn't expect to see these problems in an AP that was so well received.

Some people see it as a feature not a bug

 

[brehobit]

Some people see it as a feature not a bug

Cool, what about that do you consider a feature and why? I'd love to take advantage of the issues rather than have to work around them.