D&D 5E Convince me to keep reading Princes of the Apocalypse (*significant* spoilers. Also my players keep out)

[Jester David]

I guess we'll have to disagree. I found the asylum section interesting. I had not yet experienced a D&D module that used ghouls and ghoul fever in such an interesting manner. Perhaps you had already experienced ghoul fever used in such a manner. I found putting a patient with ghoul fever in an asylum for the mentally ill and sick an interesting and unique method of providing the players with a piece of evidence in a murder mystery.

You see that as experience padding. I see it as an interesting way to incorporate a story element.

I didn't say I didn't find the asylum interesting. I didn't say it wasn't an enjoyable piece of the adventure. I didn't say there wasn't interesting opportunities for roleplaying or unique ideas.

I simply said it was padding. That it didn't strongly connect to the main plot or advance the story in a meaningful way. Especially with the potential combat(s) at the asylum, when it could easily be a much more straight forward roleplaying situation.

(I found the asylum especially useful. My group opted to head straight there, bypassing the farms, and then declared their intentions to stay at Foxglove Manor (as it was closer than Sandpoint), since they had received an invite to visit. So I used the asylum to plant some of the story elements they were missing by skipping the farms.)

It's not a side quest. It's a way to integrate the PCs indirectly into a story. They are dealing with a goblin invasion thinking that is the primary adventure. Surprise, the goblins aren't the real problem. You seem to be looking at it from a DM's perspective. From a player's perspective, it throws them off and keeps the actual cause of the adventure a mystery. That is what it's supposed to be. You don't actually figure out who is really behind the goings on until the third or fourth module.

It is problematic even from a player perspective. My players were continually trying to mesh the events of that story with the larger picture and trying to figure out how the events were connected. Which wasn't possible as there's no easy way of discovering the backstory to the adventure.

Now, I love Burnt Offerings. It's an excellent module. A fantastic introduction to the town and a fun story with a bunch of neat locales. But it's pretty much stand alone. You could segue from Burnt Offerings into several different stories, such as jumping into the later parts of Jade Regent or Feast of Ravenmoor or even some Pathfinder Society.
Which is both a strength and a weakness. It likely encouraged people to buy the first issue of Pathfinder and try the adventure, knowing that even if they hated the rest of the Adventure Path, they could run the module and go in their own direction. Remove the Sihedron medallion from <villain X> and there's no apparent tie.

That's what I found so unique about Rise of the Runelords. They start you off thinking it's some standard "fight the humanoids" adventure, then they send you after a serial killer and haunted house, and then after crazy ogres. The entire time they keep you guessing while providing you with clues and bits of information along the way as to who the real culprit is. I found the set up quite interesting. I used the misdirection to the fullest to keep the players guessing as to what they were really facing.

So long as the player's don't know the name of the AP, otherwise they'll know that Runelords will rise.
Not that the title is accurate; it should really be Rise of the Runelord. Singular. My players kinda expected to wack all seven.

Still, the quality of the module was never at issue. RotRL is excellent, and I was using it as a positive example of how a good adventure can still have padding and awkwardly justified monsters. Because there are a lot of superfluous encounters.

 

[Nebulous]

I finally got this last night. Gorgeous book, it's up there with the high standards of the core three. And a billion times better laid out than the Dragon Queen stuff.

 

[Celtavian]

As I mentioned twice in the past this adventure has little in common with the original. Hell it has more to do with Elemental Evil then the original. (The original did not have much to do with it.)

Exactly why I don't understand why it was associated with "Elemental Evil" since that means something specific to long time players of the game. The module name Princes of the Apocalypse is cool. I didn't see the need to tie it to Elemental Evil, when it has so little to do with it.

 

[Celtavian]

I didn't say I didn't find the asylum interesting. I didn't say it wasn't an enjoyable piece of the adventure. I didn't say there wasn't interesting opportunities for roleplaying or unique ideas.

I simply said it was padding. That it didn't strongly connect to the main plot or advance the story in a meaningful way. Especially with the potential combat(s) at the asylum, when it could easily be a much more straight forward roleplaying situation.

(I found the asylum especially useful. My group opted to head straight there, bypassing the farms, and then declared their intentions to stay at Foxglove Manor (as it was closer than Sandpoint), since they had received an invite to visit. So I used the asylum to plant some of the story elements they were missing by skipping the farms.)


It is problematic even from a player perspective. My players were continually trying to mesh the events of that story with the larger picture and trying to figure out how the events were connected. Which wasn't possible as there's no easy way of discovering the backstory to the adventure.

Now, I love Burnt Offerings. It's an excellent module. A fantastic introduction to the town and a fun story with a bunch of neat locales. But it's pretty much stand alone. You could segue from Burnt Offerings into several different stories, such as jumping into the later parts of Jade Regent or Feast of Ravenmoor or even some Pathfinder Society.
Which is both a strength and a weakness. It likely encouraged people to buy the first issue of Pathfinder and try the adventure, knowing that even if they hated the rest of the Adventure Path, they could run the module and go in their own direction. Remove the Sihedron medallion from <villain X> and there's no apparent tie.


So long as the player's don't know the name of the AP, otherwise they'll know that Runelords will rise.
Not that the title is accurate; it should really be Rise of the Runelord. Singular. My players kinda expected to wack all seven.

Still, the quality of the module was never at issue. RotRL is excellent, and I was using it as a positive example of how a good adventure can still have padding and awkwardly justified monsters. Because there are a lot of superfluous encounters.

Glad you liked it too.

Now let's hope WotC does some module like Rise of the Runelords in terms of going off the standard track into areas as of yet unseen in adventure modules. I know they have to have some good creative people that like unusual material. Let's see them make their mark on the adventure module genre with some unique adventures that have nothing to do with the past ones that are good as they are.

 

[pogre]

We're playing through parts of the module and it has been blast thus far.

For me, it is a perfect module because there is so much I can pull out and use in my campaign. It does have a very sandbox-feel to me.

I cannot address the OP's concerns about the FR elements, because I don't use the FR campaign setting.

The encounters are a lot of fun - that's my measure of a module.

As an engineer, I can see why parts of the module are unsatisfactory for you. However, there are some really quality bits well worth stealing.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Exactly why I don't understand why it was associated with "Elemental Evil" since that means something specific to long time players of the game. The module name Princes of the Apocalypse is cool. I didn't see the need to tie it to Elemental Evil, when it has so little to do with it.

Some "remakes" steal nothing from the original but a name and a high concept. "Father of the Bride" and "Cheaper by the Dozen" are excellent movies which share a title and not much else with other movies from 40 years earlier. You gotta admit that "elemental evil" is a cool phrase, worth reusing even if you don't intend to steal anything else but the idea of elemental cult-themed dungeon crawls.

 

[Celtavian]

Some "remakes" steal nothing from the original but a name and a high concept. "Father of the Bride" and "Cheaper by the Dozen" are excellent movies which share a title and not much else with other movies from 40 years earlier. You gotta admit that "elemental evil" is a cool phrase, worth reusing even if you don't intend to steal anything else but the idea of elemental cult-themed dungeon crawls.

What was cool was the original adventure including the Village of Hommlet.

 

[Jeff Albertson]

"Father of the Bride" and "Cheaper by the Dozen" are excellent movies

Well, let's not get hysterical, Martin Short stole Father of the Bride, the latter is very substandard Steve, the last good Steve movie was Bowfinger.

 

[Cadriel]

What was cool was the original adventure including the Village of Hommlet.

Between Red Larch and Rivergard Keep, I think that there's plenty of Hommlet-inspired material in Princes of the Apocalypse. It's why I think "start at level 1" is the better option for PotA. Obviously Red Larch isn't Hommlet but the feel is still very cool, and I think there's a bit of the Moathouse in the keep, if not a literal translation.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Exactly why I don't understand why it was associated with "Elemental Evil" since that means something specific to long time players of the game. The module name Princes of the Apocalypse is cool. I didn't see the need to tie it to Elemental Evil, when it has so little to do with it.

As I said it has more to do with Elemental Evil then the original. So I can accept that.