But so is interglactic travel, and he can do that. If he can navigate the galaxy (which he can), then he can handle orbital mechanics.
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JLA vs Avengers - who wins?
- Thread starter Morrus
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But so is interglactic travel, and he can do that. If he can navigate the galaxy (which he can), then he can handle orbital mechanics.
Actually, Morrus, that does not at all follow. The physics of moving normal masses under gravity must be different from the physics of FTL travel.
But it DOES follow from his duties as Green Lantern- not of Earth- but of a large sector of space. He- presumably with most of the "heavy lifting" done by the ring- has to be able to navigate between planets, between solar systems, etc. IOW, he has to be able to do both just to do his job. There's a reason the Oan rings are widely regarded as the most dangerous weapons in the universe.
Re: yellow Hulk: it isn't like Hal Jordan and other GLs haven't faced foes covered entirely in yellow.
He just gets swatted by material just like the bus does.
If nothing else, Hal could launch the section of ground upon which the Hulk stands like a pinball. Once launched on said trajectory to near earth orbit, Hulk is pretty powerless to change his eventual destination. He might be able to alter his angle of escape a little bit by jumping off against the bigger mass, but that will only be good for a few degrees- it won't get him back to the ground any sooner.
...or, unless Hulk has blinded himself with the yellow paint, Homicidal Hal could just send a couple of lances of pure Oan energy into his eyes and out the back of his head.
Wolverine is much more interesting. We know from stuff set in the future that he can and does die. His full adamanti skeleton is on display in a case in somebody's collection.
(The Collector's?)
What we don't know is what it takes. Is Supes's heat vision enough to do the trick? Or would he have to resort to the vacuum of space?
Dr. Strange IS indeed another wildcard. Again, depending on when in his story arc you look, he's taken down multidimensional beings that some might consider gods. And magic is a vulnerability for Superman.
But he probably has to spend HIS energies dealing with Dr. Fate, the limits of whose powers is unknown. And THAT fight is as close to an apocalyptic conflict as things would get.
(The Collector's?)
What we don't know is what it takes. Is Supes's heat vision enough to do the trick? Or would he have to resort to the vacuum of space?
Dr. Strange IS indeed another wildcard. Again, depending on when in his story arc you look, he's taken down multidimensional beings that some might consider gods. And magic is a vulnerability for Superman.
But he probably has to spend HIS energies dealing with Dr. Fate, the limits of whose powers is unknown. And THAT fight is as close to an apocalyptic conflict as things would get.
Gardner vs Cat and C'hp vs Truck are 2 of my least favorite bits of writing in DC history. I don't think the truck was even yellow- C'hp just got caught in the headlights like a mundane critter and failed to react at all...
Which is idiotic writing (for both)- every last GL is taught about setting up automatic defenses and power triggers that by defintion require ZERO conscious thought to activate.
The physics might. The level of complexity is the issue. If he's capable of the extraordinarily complex mental calculations required for intergalactic FTL navigation and travel under his own power, he's capable of other super heroic mental calculations, too.
As I have already noted - the physics (and therefore the math) of dropping a rock from orbit is not likely to bear much if any resemblance to that of travelling at FTL speeds.
Under the influence of the ring, moving himself with loads of fine control and correction, will also bear little resemblance to dropping a rock in freefall from orbit and hitting a smallish target. And, if he carries the rock down, under power, he's losing the assist of gravity - he might as well just pick up a car on the surface and whollop someone with it at that point. Far simpler.
As I said - one GL *allowed himself to get run over by a mundane truck and die*. The ring doesn't make you a genius, or even particularly observant. It is a dangerous weapon, but the wearers are just people.
But, you know, if your'e not going to allow for plausible limitations on them, fine. The DC heroes win. End of debate. Happy?
Part of discussion is "give ant take" guys. You're not allowing for any. Makes it kind of pointless.
trappedslider
Legend
In the story line "Death Of wolverine" how he dies is a virus from the microversewhich caused Wolverine's mutant healing factor to burn out and stop working, he's then covered in Adamantium and so he died from suffocation from the hardening Adamantium after a fight.
Also in one storyline which i believe takes place after the events of Kingdom Superman understands the fundamental paradox of magic and is no longer vulnerable to it, this superman is also no longer vulnerable to kryptonite due to all those years soaking up the sun.
RangerWickett
Legend
Deadpool realizes it's a cross-over, goes and buys some DC comics, then guilt-trips the JLA for their sexism. He's aided by Wonder Woman, whom most of you didn't even mention.
I'm not arguing that point at all.
I am saying that he also travels through space at speeds infinitely slower than c. But I also get that your true point is this:
My response is that Hal Jordan, human experimental jet test pilot- is unlikely to have any concept of the (DC universe) physics involved in doing many of the things he does- FTL, generating infinitely malleable force fields, travel via wormholes, generating his uniform ex nihilo. The Oans did all that math and built it into the rings. All the operator has to do is conceive of the doing ad will it to be so. Essentially, the Oan rings are as close to rings of infinite wishes as exist in the DC Universe.
If Hal can conceive of dropping a 1 ton asteroid from the belt between Mars and Jupiter on the corner of 4th & Main of Star City- a relatively stationary target as opposed to a person in motion on said street- he doesn't need to do the math, the ring will do it for him.
They DO have limitations- mainly, the minds of the wielders. Once, Hal had to give a ring to a being chosen to be a GL, but the being was blind. As in, the being's species was blind. Without a concept of light and sight, Hal couldn't teach it the oath required to recharge the ring. Even the ring's ability to act as a universal translator was ineffective, since there was no words related to "light" in the being's vocabulary. He had to formulate in his mind an oath that kept the spirit of the original but operated on concepts the being could comprehend. (He succeeded.)
Except, as we all know, that would be 100% ineffective on any of the targets he'd consider dropping an asteroid on- they're all too tough and strong.
Umbran, I didn't write up the powers and limitations of the characters in question, reasonable or otherwise, which is one reason why I said in my initial response was that who wins depends on which versions of the characters and which team lineups you look at.
I'm perfectly willing to discuss the abilities and flaws of any of the characters in question, at any time in any character's multiply retconned origins and official stats.
Sure, the Avengers have some nifty tricks up their sleeves, too. Thor can open up trans-dimensional portals. But it takes time for him to do so, and he can't do much else while doing so.
Cap's shield is so good at absorbing kinetic energy, he has withstood blows from some of the biggest powerhouses in the Marvel Universe- Hulk, the Thing, Thor, Iron Man, etc.- and lived to lecture them about their tempers.
Scarlet Witch is potentially as powerful as Dr. Strange near his peak. But whether her hex powers can merely cause malfunctions or full on alter reality depends, in part, on her sanity at the time.
The problem is simple: Marvel characters- even those directly based on DC characters like those in the Squadron Sinister/Supreme- tend to be written as being significantly less über than DC characters. That's has been one of their draws. Even the most powerful Marvel superheroes tend to be more human...and more limited for it.
The reason why I hated the Cat & Truck storylines- or similarly, Batman's punching Guy out- so much is not that the GLs in question had their mortality revealed- that is a granted. What I objected to is that both Guy and C'hp were experienced Green Lanterns, and the events in question were so predictable & preventable that a GL getting hurt or killed in those ways would have meant they shouldn't have survived to become experienced Green Lanterns in the first place. Neither attack should have gotten past the auto shields that 99.99% of all Lanterns use for personal defense.
At the very least, Guy- who we know had used such a force field in the past- should have been protected from those attacks. In his case, at least, it wasn't a case of his human limitations, it was writers tossing out a character's standard operating procedure for comedic effect.
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